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Old 12-14-2009, 08:57 PM
 
29,779 posts, read 34,867,277 times
Reputation: 11705

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS1 View Post
Because it's my tax dollars and I don't like to see them wasted.

I took a 45% pay cut this year with my new job when I lost my job last year. Has any federal employee ever had to do that?
You lost your job and had a job change. You did not receive a 45% in place job cut so there is no comparison between you and someone who didn't lose their job. Aren't you the same non retired person complaining about alternative teacher certification programs because no district in Texas would hire you to teach math? You are the same person posting in the education forum. Yes/No?

http://www.city-data.com/forum/educa...age-fraud.html

Last edited by TuborgP; 12-14-2009 at 09:06 PM..
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Old 12-14-2009, 09:00 PM
 
29,779 posts, read 34,867,277 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda View Post
I don't think that anyone is saying that federal employees are inherently smarter than their private sector counterparts doing the same job. A federal accountant is no smarter or better educated than an accountant in the private sector.

That said, on the whole, the federal workforce is better educated than the private sector, but it is mainly due to the type of work being conducted. This isn't a subjective argument; it is a statement of fact based on demographics. The federal government simply does not employ hundreds of thousands of fast food workers, retail store clerks, Walmart greeters and the like, as is common in the private sector.
It seems as though the jocks and cheerleader may be continuing their resentment of geeks and those who valued education into their old age. Like you said anyone could have applied for a public sector job as long as they met the qualifications. If they chose not to it was their choice. If public pensioners are now receiving the benefits of their deferred gratification good for them.
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Old 12-14-2009, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,784 posts, read 23,809,056 times
Reputation: 6195
Though now a bit outdated, I found the chart at the end of the Congressional Research Service report attached below pretty interesting, and I believe an accurate reflection concerning the history of compensation.

Using 1969 as the base year, and setting it up as an index of 100.0 across the board, by the end of 2006 these were the following adjustments to indexes and compensation:

Consumer Price Index - 531.8
Average Annual Wages and Salaries - 656.1

Social Security - 648.8
Civil Service Retirement - 533.1
Federal Pay - 471.0


https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstr...pdf?sequence=2
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Central Maine
4,687 posts, read 5,537,116 times
Reputation: 4966
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
Though now a bit outdated, I found the chart at the end of the Congressional Research Service report attached below pretty interesting, and I believe an accurate reflection concerning the history of compensation.

Using 1969 as the base year, and setting it up as an index of 100.0 across the board, by the end of 2006 these were the following adjustments to indexes and compensation:

Consumer Price Index - 531.8
Average Annual Wages and Salaries - 656.1

Social Security - 648.8
Civil Service Retirement - 533.1
Federal Pay - 471.0


https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstr...pdf?sequence=2
Thank you for this post and link to the excellent CRS report on this. There has been a rash of fed-bashing in the last week or so, as well as a lot of confusion about pay raises vs. cost of living adjustments. This resource will come in handy.
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:25 AM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 12,051,697 times
Reputation: 2141
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda View Post
I don't think that anyone is saying that federal employees are inherently smarter than their private sector counterparts doing the same job. A federal accountant is no smarter or better educated than an accountant in the private sector.

That said, on the whole, the federal workforce is better educated than the private sector, but it is mainly due to the type of work being conducted. This isn't a subjective argument; it is a statement of fact based on demographics. The federal government simply does not employ hundreds of thousands of fast food workers, retail store clerks, Walmart greeters and the like, as is common in the private sector.
Exactly! Furthermore, the Federal Govt used to have civil servants perform trade jobs and used to have a lot of clerical workers. Clerical workers are more and more of a rarity as most of their jobs are done now by higher paid/educated workers and computers. Most trade jobs like your electricians are now contracted out and no longer hired as civil servants.

There are also a great many (no one knows how many) professional grade jobs contracted out as well. The remaining civil servants are now mostly highly educated professional grade jobs. And they get paid considerably less than their private sector counterparts and usually a lot less than those contractors sitting next to them. But the civil servant has a lot more responsibility than that contractor next door.

The way the fed. govt has changed has affected who gets hired and the kinds of jobs performed by the civil servants. Civil servants are not performing the average job and do not represent an average cross section of the population or workforce. That does not devalue those who perform those jobs. They are needed but are rarely hired as a civil servant - they are hired as a private contractor. Money spent on all the contractors is not counted in any of the civil service numbers.

This is a well documented fact. Just as the average pay at Goldman-Sachs is vastly different than the average pay at McDonalds. Very different sections of the workforce.
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Illinois
718 posts, read 1,804,458 times
Reputation: 973
And will the federal employees also be on the same mandated government insurance plan being held up in Congress? NOT!
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Old 12-15-2009, 09:18 AM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 12,051,697 times
Reputation: 2141
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnKK View Post
And will the federal employees also be on the same mandated government insurance plan being held up in Congress? NOT!
That has yet to be determined. They are trying to keep existing insurance intact (remember the promise that those who are happy with their insurance get to keep it?) so in principle the employee health insurance should not be brought under that.

But it isn't done yet and who knows how it will change in the future?
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Old 12-15-2009, 09:40 AM
 
2,498 posts, read 6,392,532 times
Reputation: 2257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
And this is surprising why? I receive Social Security and this year's COLA was nice but I have never based my finances on ever receiving a COLA in retirement. Any COLA I may get in SS or my pension just goes fully into savings anyway. To depend upon government (I'm a retired state government employee) is to set yourself up for disappointment.
Kind of nice that all government employee's are well taken care of.I have not had a cola increase increase in over 20 years,after working for Bell for 34 years.Most of us have not the same benefits of government.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:19 AM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 12,051,697 times
Reputation: 2141
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBev View Post
Kind of nice that all government employee's are well taken care of.I have not had a cola increase increase in over 20 years,after working for Bell for 34 years.Most of us have not the same benefits of government.
Neither have govt employees. Have you had no pay increases in 20 years?

I remember some Verizon employees who got such a sweetheart deal when Verizon wanted to downsize. They got up to 5 additional age years and service years added to their records plus a 50-100k cash bonus if they would retire early. I knew several people at 50 who said they couldn't afford not to retire.

That kind of thing doesn't happen in the govt. IF they do an early out option, we get 2% deducted for every year under age requirements and our service time stays whatever it is that we earned. At best, they once gave an up to $25k bonus that had to be paid back if they ever joined the govt again.

I notice that when the economy is good and companies are paying big bucks, most of these people in the private sector are happy to take their much higher pay and benefits and disdain a civil service job, but when it gets into a recession, they complain about the meager compensation the govt employees get. If you think it is so great, then apply for a govt job.
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:10 PM
 
4,343 posts, read 6,057,486 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda View Post
The federal government simply does not employ hundreds of thousands of fast food workers, retail store clerks, Walmart greeters and the like, as is common in the private sector.
Correct! The Fed Gov employs statisticians, scientists, accountants, etc. while private industry employs the BK and McDonald's workers as well as... well... MMofBethesda said it best.
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