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Old 12-22-2009, 08:45 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 13,553,490 times
Reputation: 6928

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"...It wasn't the civil service who made all those liar loans and ponzi schemes that started this economic collapse last year..."

Really??? Has not been disclosed that the big Ponzi Scheme was made possible by the failure of Federal Employees to take action after numerous complaints over the years??? Even that the Crook, himself, said the government agents where fools and incompetent, when they examined his books.

Let us also talk about the failure of Federal Employees to enforce, regulate the financial community, as they were mandated by statute.

Did not Federal Employees create a bailout scheme without no oversight, and allow big bonuses to be paid from the federal funds provided for the bailout.

Please, do not tell me this nonsense. I have worked in DC; I have worked in a federal agency; I worked beside federal employees in the Armed Services. What I have seen is many, many incompetent overpaid, overcompensated people promoted beyond their capabilities.

However, what gives me some relief from the rage I have felt is that I have also seen many good federal employees who work very hard and try to do their best. Yet, at the same time I have seen many good federal employees beaten down by the incompetence, greed and laziness of others and suffer for years trying to their best and make a difference. These are the federal employees I respect.

But to be balanced, I have also worked for years in the private sector and I have seen bad lazy overpaid employees; good employees trying to do their best and also employees who have suffered for years under the yoke of bad management and fellow employees--but again, like federal employees, trying to do their best and make a difference. I honor these people.

So that is the way of life. It will never change. I just try to appreciate the good, when I see it. I live my life without jealousy or avarice over what other people receive--if the benefits are ill received, so be it; if the benefits are deserved, so much the better.

Livecontent

Last edited by livecontent; 12-22-2009 at 09:21 PM..
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Central Maine
4,687 posts, read 5,539,836 times
Reputation: 4966
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent View Post
"...It wasn't the civil service who made all those liar loans and ponzi schemes that started this economic collapse last year..."

Really??? Has not been disclosed that the big Ponzi Scheme was made possible by the failure of Federal Employees to take action after numerous complaints over the years??? Even that the Crook, himself, said the government agents where fools and incompetent, when they examined his books.

Let us also talk about the failure of Federal Employees to enforce, regulate the financial community, as they were mandated by statute.

Did not Federal Employees create a bailout scheme without no oversight, and allow big bonuses to be paid from the federal funds provided for the bailout.

Please, do not tell me this nonsense. I have worked in DC; I have worked in a federal agency; I worked beside federal employees in the Armed Services. What I have seen is many, many incompetent overpaid, overcompensated people promoted beyond their capabilities.

However, what gives me some relief from the rage I have felt is that I have also seen many good federal employees who work very hard and try to do their best. Yet, at the same time I have seen many good federal employees beaten down by the incompetence, greed and laziness of others and suffer for years trying to their best and make a difference. These are the federal employees I respect.

But to be balanced, I have also worked for years in the private sector and I have seen bad lazy overpaid employees; good employees trying to do their best and also employees who have suffered for years under the yoke of bad management and fellow employees--but again, like federal employees, trying to do their best and make a difference. I honor these people.

So that is the way of life. It will never change. I just try to appreciate the good, when I see it. I live my life without jealousy or avarice over what other people receive--if the benefits are ill received, so be it; if the benefits are deserved, so much the better.
I respect your opinion. However, I suggest the insertion of just one word that would dial back the broad generalizations just a bit.
Has not been disclosed that the big Ponzi Scheme was made possible by the failure of some Federal Employees to take action after numerous complaints over the years???

Let us also talk about the failure of some Federal Employees to enforce, regulate the financial community, as they were mandated by statute.

Did not some Federal Employees create a bailout scheme without no oversight, and allow big bonuses to be paid from the federal funds provided for the bailout.
Perhaps I am overly sensitive, but I strongly object to painting "federal employees" with the same brush as if we/they are all the same. I would think that over 99% of federal employees had nothing whatsoever to do with the financial sector.
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:20 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,502,154 times
Reputation: 29076
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
But governmant workers are not the best and brightest ;never have been. In fact it widely held that firing a federal governamnt employeee is dang near impossible.
No it's not. As a government manager I fired some people and rejected others on probation. You may have to jump through hoops but it is possible. You just have to document and have your stuff together.
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Texas
2,847 posts, read 1,961,454 times
Reputation: 1747
my heart really goes out to all the poor underpaid government employees


Private vs. Public Sector Pay - Economix Blog - NYTimes.com
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:38 AM
 
8,204 posts, read 11,923,585 times
Reputation: 18020
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
But governmant workers are not the best and brightest ;never have been. In fact it widely held that firing a federal governamnt employeee is dang near impossible.
That is simply ridiculous; you're obviously going by myth and rumor and haven't the slightest concept of what the HR regulations in the federal government entail. First of all, there are different rules in different branches of the government and different rules for the agencies within those branches, not to mention differences in the appointment authorities that cover the employees themselves. For example, every employee in the entire judicial branch of government is an "at will" employee and can be fired for any reason whatsoever and with no notice provided. The same holds true for most legislative branch employees.

Even in the executive branch, there is a difference between employees in the competitive service and those in the excepted service. There is also a difference between those employees covered by labor agreements and those who are not. Even in the most trying of circumstances, managers can fire employees without too much difficulty, it just requires 30 days notice and adequate documentation and substantiation of the reasons for the proposed termination. Those employees also may request a hearing by the Merit Systems Protection Board, but in the vast majority of cases, MSPB rules for the employer.
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:52 AM
 
8,204 posts, read 11,923,585 times
Reputation: 18020
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliveandwellinSA View Post
my heart really goes out to all the poor underpaid government employees


Private vs. Public Sector Pay - Economix Blog - NYTimes.com
Did you bother to read the article and the included link, or are you only good with pictures?

Try reading this article (which was linked within) and then see if you can contain your sarcasm:

Are Federal Workers Overpaid? - Economix Blog - NYTimes.com

And in case the length of that article is too tasking for someone who likes to jump to (erroneous) conclusions, let me help you out a bit by posting just a relevant snippet:

"The biggest difference between private and federal employment, illustrated in the graph above, lies in the proportion of jobs paying less than $25,000 a year. In 2008 more than 43 percent of private-sector workers earned less than $25,000 a year. Most federal employees fell squarely in the middle earnings brackets, making $25,000 to $75,000 a year."

As has been stated previously in this thread, but perhaps needs to be said again so that it will penetrate into the closed minds of individuals who aren't good at analyzing statistics, the federal government does not employ tens of thousands of fast-food workers, store clerks, and WalMart greeters who barely make above minimum wage. Therefore, when you factor in those jobs into the private sector averages, it appears tha government employees are overpaid. However, when you compare similar positions in the public and private sector, (lawyer to lawyer, accountant to accountant, HR manager to HR manager) the federal employee is paid much less than his private sector counterpart.

Now, I hope that wasn't too difficult to understand.
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Texas
2,847 posts, read 1,961,454 times
Reputation: 1747
you are brilliant absolutely brilliant and have another sip of the kool aid
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Texas
2,847 posts, read 1,961,454 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda View Post
Did you bother to read the article and the included link, or are you only good with pictures?

Try reading this article (which was linked within) and then see if you can contain your sarcasm:

Are Federal Workers Overpaid? - Economix Blog - NYTimes.com

And in case the length of that article is too tasking for someone who likes to jump to (erroneous) conclusions, let me help you out a bit by posting just a relevant snippet:

"The biggest difference between private and federal employment, illustrated in the graph above, lies in the proportion of jobs paying less than $25,000 a year. In 2008 more than 43 percent of private-sector workers earned less than $25,000 a year. Most federal employees fell squarely in the middle earnings brackets, making $25,000 to $75,000 a year."

As has been stated previously in this thread, but perhaps needs to be said again so that it will penetrate into the closed minds of individuals who aren't good at analyzing statistics, the federal government does not employ tens of thousands of fast-food workers, store clerks, and WalMart greeters who barely make above minimum wage. Therefore, when you factor in those jobs into the private sector averages, it appears tha government employees are overpaid. However, when you compare similar positions in the public and private sector, (lawyer to lawyer, accountant to accountant, HR manager to HR manager) the federal employee is paid much less than his private sector counterpart.

Now, I hope that wasn't too difficult to understand.
choosing the stats that suit you is fine but why did you ignore the disparity between the $25m to the $150m?
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:01 AM
 
8,204 posts, read 11,923,585 times
Reputation: 18020
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliveandwellinSA View Post
choosing the stats that suit you is fine but why did you ignore the disparity between the $25m to the $150m?
OMG.

I feel like I am beating my head against a wall.

Try reading my post again, but this time do it

v-e-r-y

s-l-o-w-l-y.

And then look at the chart again.


Repeat as necessary.

I'm sure that in time you'll be able to understand what the numbers and bars in the chart signify.
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,847 posts, read 1,961,454 times
Reputation: 1747
you are officially dubbed the king of spin
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