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Old 05-04-2010, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,723,738 times
Reputation: 32304

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Lots of people buy insurance which they hope never to need, and in the case of automobile liability, it's required by law. It is my position here that the case of needing long term care insurance is too horrible to contemplate. Therefore I am 66 and have not purchased any. I categorically refuse to live in a nursing home and I plan to end my life if I should ever reach that point.

Yes, it may not work out that way in the end: If I am mentally out of it to the degree that I've forgotten that was my intent (and don't know what's going on around me), then I won't be able to follow through on my plans. Also, if I am ever parlyzed from the neck down, then I probably will not be in a position to take my own life.

So, while recognizing that none of us can know what the future will bring, I just can't see living in a nursing home. And I do not think there is any necessity to go into details about the horrors involved, as readers here have been around the block a few times and know as much about it as I do. For me personally, these horrors are simply unacceptable. (However, I have no quarrel with those who feel differently). Fellow posters, what is your take on this?
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Old 05-04-2010, 08:12 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,463,318 times
Reputation: 29071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
Lots of people buy insurance which they hope never to need, and in the case of automobile liability, it's required by law. It is my position here that the case of needing long term care insurance is too horrible to contemplate. Therefore I am 66 and have not purchased any. I categorically refuse to live in a nursing home and I plan to end my life if I should ever reach that point.
Well, that is a form of long-term planning. Many say that when the day comes they're going to get their pistol, go to the peach orchard and blow their brains out rather than go to "The Home."

The problem is, that plan is predicated upon three assumptions:

1) When the time comes you can find the pistol;

2) You are still capable of getting to the peach orchard; and

3) Once you're there you remember why!

I'm 64 and while I accept my mortality and realize full well that my remaining time is finite, I have neither LTC insurance nor any plan for self-destruction. Let the chips fall where they may. I'll simply deal with it!
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,917,951 times
Reputation: 6716
First of all - they're not called nursing homes these days - or "old folks' homes" (they still call them that in certain parts of the south).

And have you seen enough of them so you are 100% sure they are all terrible? The one where my FIL spent the last 3 years of his life near where I live is a 4 time Florida gold star winner. Here's the website:

River Garden — Excellence in Adult Care and Services

It's a wonderful place.

OTOH - there *are* places that stink. When my FIL had his bladder removed for bladder cancer and went to a SNF near where he lived in NC for post-surgical care - there was no one in the whole frigging place who knew what to do with a patient who had had his bladder removed (one of the reasons he went to the SNF was so people could teach him what to do after his operation). We had to hire a private ostomy nurse to "show him the ropes". Also - it was the kind of place where if the person who was supposed to give him his bath on a given day didn't show up for work - he wouldn't get a bath until his next scheduled bath. It is no wonder that after seeing this place (where he stayed for a few weeks) - that when he had a stroke 2 years later we moved him to Florida to River Garden.

Had you asked my FIL when he lived at River Garden whether he would rather be healthy and living at home - I'm sure he would have said yes. But - if you had asked him whether he'd rather be dead - I'm quite sure he would have said no. Robyn

P.S. And the proof is in the pudding. He had bad CHF - and could have easily killed himself by going off his CHF diet. But he stuck to it rigorously until he died.
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:11 PM
 
8,179 posts, read 11,900,573 times
Reputation: 17902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
So, while recognizing that none of us can know what the future will bring, I just can't see living in a nursing home. And I do not think there is any necessity to go into details about the horrors involved, as readers here have been around the block a few times and know as much about it as I do. For me personally, these horrors are simply unacceptable. (However, I have no quarrel with those who feel differently). Fellow posters, what is your take on this?
Yes, but what you are failing to take into consideration is that LTC can also pay for home health care, thereby negating the need to go to a nursing home in certain situations.
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,917,951 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
Lots of people buy insurance which they hope never to need, and in the case of automobile liability, it's required by law. It is my position here that the case of needing long term care insurance is too horrible to contemplate. Therefore I am 66 and have not purchased any. I categorically refuse to live in a nursing home and I plan to end my life if I should ever reach that point.

Yes, it may not work out that way in the end: If I am mentally out of it to the degree that I've forgotten that was my intent (and don't know what's going on around me), then I won't be able to follow through on my plans. Also, if I am ever parlyzed from the neck down, then I probably will not be in a position to take my own life.

So, while recognizing that none of us can know what the future will bring, I just can't see living in a nursing home. And I do not think there is any necessity to go into details about the horrors involved, as readers here have been around the block a few times and know as much about it as I do. For me personally, these horrors are simply unacceptable. (However, I have no quarrel with those who feel differently). Fellow posters, what is your take on this?
Tell me about the horrors. Because although I have seen incompetence (as well as excellence) - I have not seen horrors. So what horrors are you talking about? Robyn
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:17 PM
 
29,764 posts, read 34,848,700 times
Reputation: 11675
If people don't buy it they may not fully understand it because they never had the opportunity to. Some understand it and don't buy for a number of reasons. Others of us do buy it.
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,917,951 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda View Post
Yes, but what you are failing to take into consideration is that LTC can also pay for home health care, thereby negating the need to go to a nursing home in certain situations.
LTC insurance usually has stated benefits of X dollars a day - up to a max of X - stuff like that. If you need a SNF (which is basically 24/7 care) - there is no way you can do that at home without running out of benefits really really fast - and/or paying a huge amount out of pocket (since - even if you're talking about a CNA - you're talking 3 8 hour shifts a day at home).

Also - if you don't have a super organized spouse - partner - etc. - who's going to organize all that home health care? Put in the totally handicap accessible bathroom? The oxygen line to the house? The railings along the walls and the floor surfaces that work for walkers/wheelchairs? Take care of frequently very complicated dietary requirements (for people with diabetes - CHF - etc.)? Stuff like that.

A good SNF is a combination of excellent care and an appropriate safe living environment for people with serious medical disabilities (many of which are physical - not mental). Robyn

P.S. I am not a great fan of LTC insurance for some financial reasons. But I wouldn't slit my throat before going to a SNF.
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,917,951 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda View Post
Yes, but what you are failing to take into consideration is that LTC can also pay for home health care, thereby negating the need to go to a nursing home in certain situations.
Are you talking about the tax-deductible "flavor" of LTC insurance? If so - it has to meet very stringent requirements in terms of the conditions it covers (and it's hard to meet those requirements with a lot of home health care and ALF expenditures)? Robyn
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Old 05-04-2010, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
354 posts, read 1,088,470 times
Reputation: 428
I investigated LTC insurance and the terms of the contract GE was peddling was rediculous. Being in my mid fifties I figured I would get in at a low rate and maintain coverage at an affordable price the rest of my days.

Well, you sign up for a specific benefit for which you pay a certain premium but the terms of the contract state that GE has the right to raise your rates. Sure, it would not be as a function of your individual claims but raise them nontheless for a class of people.

So, if their actuarial tables are bad and it is too expensive to provide the coverage they are obligated to they can jack up your rates. This would probably happen when I could least afford it.

I was ticked off and the saleslady was mighty disappointed.
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Old 05-04-2010, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,723,738 times
Reputation: 32304
Default "Horrors" explained

Good point, which made me see that I didn't explain my main point very well. To me, what would be horrible and unacceptable would be not to be able to take care of myself, for example wearing diapers. I was not referring to substandard care or lapses in care or neglect or negligence, etc., all of which would make a bad situation even worse, or course. I readily accept your point that there are excellent facilities, mediocre facilities, and poor facilities, but I was not talking about that at all.

On the question of terminology, I will stick with "nursing homes" because that's the word I have used, and heard, all my life. Sure, I've also heard "skilled nursing facility", but that seems so euphemistic and bureaucratic, sort of like calling the mentally retarded devolopmentally disabled which is even worse. (By the way, there was a whole thread recently on the word retarded, I think in "Great Debates").
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