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Old 04-16-2015, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Rhode Island
9,244 posts, read 14,802,954 times
Reputation: 10259

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Sure, that's how "negotiations work". Why should we negotiate at all? Baseball is private for profit (huge profit) enterprise.
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Old 04-16-2015, 09:40 AM
 
Location: College Hill
2,903 posts, read 3,436,943 times
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^ I'm absolutely certain the owners understand the numbers, probably to the third decimal point. From the ProJo article:

Quote:
Taxpayers would be asked to contribute $120 million over 30 years to help pay for an estimated $85-million ballpark the new PawSox owners want to build in the capital city.
$120 million. That would pay for the proposed light rail in the city, and then some. It would pay for planting over a half million trees in the City. It would pay the salary of 150 teacher's aides for 25 years. It would fund so many good things!

I don't like threats and The Suits are making clear they will move on if the city/state don't accede to their terms. When someone pulls an ultimatum with me, I say, "Fine. Bye."
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Old 04-16-2015, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Providence, RI
12,661 posts, read 21,814,371 times
Reputation: 14071
I'm not sure how the ownership (a group very familiar with Curt Schilling and his dabbling with video games) can propose a deal like the one that was proposed. I expected something MUCH more reasonable. I'm shocked to be honest.

And to be clear, I have nostalgia for Pawtucket, but I do think a riverfront stadium in Providence could be a huge improvement. I not only support the idea of a waterfront stadium, I love it. But not as proposed. If it's as profitable as alleged, the ownership should have no problem footing the bill. It really has the feel of an ownership group looking to take advantage of a city and region that's struggling to find economic footing. It's not good.

One thing about the stadium design- a lighthouse? Really? Talk about tacky. We already have a lighthouse on a stadium a few miles up the road (Gillette). Come up with something original. A giant Del's cup would be better. Maybe even a giant NY System Wiener. Then, at least, the phallic appearance could be a reminder of what the ownership group is trying to do to Rhode Island.
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
3,609 posts, read 2,615,395 times
Reputation: 1565
^ yeah I spit up a little bit when I read the bit about the lighthouse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfieBoy View Post
^ I'm absolutely certain the owners understand the numbers, probably to the third decimal point.
I think they know how to run finance calculations. Big deal. Where I don't think they understand the numbers is the cost of the infrastructure. I'm sure they've underestimated the costs, and haven't done a real engineering study. Reference the bit about Narragansett Bay Commission and National Grid. I also think they've probably overestimated the benefits to the city, or at least overstated them.

Negotiations with the city/state began the day they bought the team, if not earlier. Nobody from the local government has stepped up to say what we are willing to give to keep them in Rhode Island. So far it is a leadership vacuum.

If the team needs taxpayer funds to stay in Rhode Island, I wish them well in Worcester.

To your larger point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfieBoy View Post
$120 million. That would pay for the proposed light rail in the city, and then some. It would pay for planting over a half million trees in the City. It would pay the salary of 150 teacher's aides for 25 years. It would fund so many good things!
Well said. To me, a baseball stadium is far down the list of priorities for taxpayers to fund, when there are far greater things we could do for the future of our city. Taxpayer funding of the stadium comes at too high an opportunity cost.

Last edited by ormari; 04-16-2015 at 11:04 AM..
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Old 04-16-2015, 02:53 PM
 
Location: College Hill
2,903 posts, read 3,436,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ormari View Post
^ yeah i spit up a little bit when i read the bit about the lighthouse.



I think they know how to run finance calculations. Big deal. Where i don't think they understand the numbers is the cost of the infrastructure. I'm sure they've underestimated the costs, and haven't done a real engineering study. Reference the bit about narragansett bay commission and national grid. I also think they've probably overestimated the benefits to the city, or at least overstated them.

Negotiations with the city/state began the day they bought the team, if not earlier. Nobody from the local government has stepped up to say what we are willing to give to keep them in rhode island. So far it is a leadership vacuum.

If the team needs taxpayer funds to stay in rhode island, i wish them well in worcester.

To your larger point:



Well said. To me, a baseball stadium is far down the list of priorities for taxpayers to fund, when there are far greater things we could do for the future of our city. Taxpayer funding of the stadium comes at too high an opportunity cost.
commissioning christo to permanently wrap the hideous providence city hall in hot pink fabric is the only important item on the agenda.
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Old 04-16-2015, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Henderson, NV
5,314 posts, read 7,757,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfieBoy View Post
commissioning christo to permanently wrap the hideous providence city hall in hot pink fabric is the only important item on the agenda.
^ and this is why I love this guy! hahaha
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
3,609 posts, read 2,615,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfieBoy View Post
commissioning christo to permanently wrap the hideous providence city hall in hot pink fabric is the only important item on the agenda.
Uggh. Let's just say that I'm glad you're not on the appropriations committee! Couldn't we just throw some dollars to one of the last textile mills in the state, if there still is such a thing, and get them to pump out enough fabric to TP half the city? Who needs christo?

Do we, as a city and state, really have no better plan for betterment other than building a baseball stadium that will lose its luster well before the tax breaks sunset?
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Old 04-16-2015, 09:59 PM
 
Location: College Hill
2,903 posts, read 3,436,943 times
Reputation: 1803
^ Sorry, if you cannot intelligently discuss radical, transformational, therapeutic healing art, I'm afraid I simply cannot engage you in civil conversation -- I just can't. That building is an eyesore and I avert my eyes everytime I pass it. That you defend and embrace that POS is disappointing, disappointing indeed.

Otherwise, double-ditto on everything you post.

As to the stadium, indeed to the entire development area, can't we put it on ice for ten or twenty years while we infill glorious downtown? Maybe Chisto will do a two-for-one and wrap those several I-95 acres while we infill downtown? Just a thought. Though I must say I would choose purple for the I-95 area. I wrote Christo before he did the Gates about this and he never responded, which is to say we agreed to disagree.
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Old 04-17-2015, 04:30 AM
 
7,936 posts, read 4,594,169 times
Reputation: 2254
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfieBoy View Post
commissioning christo to permanently wrap the hideous providence city hall in hot pink fabric is the only important item on the agenda.
On the scale of hideousness, Christo's efforts are much more needed in Boston, to cover all of that concrete Brutalism, than on the comparatively lovely PVD building.
However, the incomplete stub of the PVD city hall was desperate for the center tower from the original plan, which never happened.
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Old 04-17-2015, 05:16 AM
 
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
3,609 posts, read 2,615,395 times
Reputation: 1565
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfieBoy View Post
^ Sorry, if you cannot intelligently discuss radical, transformational, therapeutic healing art, I'm afraid I simply cannot engage you in civil conversation -- I just can't. That building is an eyesore and I avert my eyes everytime I pass it. That you defend and embrace that POS is disappointing, disappointing indeed.

Otherwise, double-ditto on everything you post.

As to the stadium, indeed to the entire development area, can't we put it on ice for ten or twenty years while we infill glorious downtown? Maybe Chisto will do a two-for-one and wrap those several I-95 acres while we infill downtown? Just a thought. Though I must say I would choose purple for the I-95 area. I wrote Christo before he did the Gates about this and he never responded, which is to say we agreed to disagree.
Oh, perhaps we will just have to agree to disagree! I'm saying there's bound to be an underutilized, Rhode Island based, textile mill to take on the work of producing the fabric. Then, there just have to be local teens who already have the requisite skills. Toilet-papering a neighbor's house is a rite of passage.. Here's a better idea: have that local textile factory produce spools of 'red sox' red fabric with an adhesive backing, and let the teens wrap up Mr. Skeffington's office tower with it. The symbolism should be obvious. Now that's art! Think they'll let me do it? Support your local artist!
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