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Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
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Originally Posted by AlfieBoy
Another interesting article in Boston.com about Pawtucket.
I truly do not believe Providence should partake in stealing a baseball team from a neighboring city, especially one that is down on its luck (not that PVD is exactly Emerald City).
You've linked another thought provoking article that put a lump in my throat. It really is sad. I'm not a native so I don't have the memories that other Rhode Islanders have there; I think I went to my first game at McCoy circa 1999 with some friends who have long ago left town.
And as you say, Pawtucket is our next door neighbor. I continue to feel that the existing stadium is suitable for the club. But to my knowledge, this isn't the City of Providence actively soliciting the ownership to steal the team away from Pawtucket. This is an ownership group that intends to use Providence to extract more money from the business, both at the immediate expense of Pawtucket and probably at the long term expense of Rhode Island.
Would Pawtucket rather the owners take the team out of state? Would Rhode Island? I think this ownership is set on Providence because of the synergies it enables for them. If we deny them Providence and insist on Pawtucket, I'm not sure we'll have a team at all. We have leverage, but the lever is only so long. We can move hills, but not mountains.
You've linked another thought provoking article that put a lump in my throat. It really is sad. I'm not a native so I don't have the memories that other Rhode Islanders have there; I think I went to my first game at McCoy circa 1999 with some friends who have long ago left town.
And as you say, Pawtucket is our next door neighbor. I continue to feel that the existing stadium is suitable for the club. But to my knowledge, this isn't the City of Providence actively soliciting the ownership to steal the team away from Pawtucket. This is an ownership group that intends to use Providence to extract more money from the business, both at the immediate expense of Pawtucket and probably at the long term expense of Rhode Island.
Would Pawtucket rather the owners take the team out of state? Would Rhode Island? I think this ownership is set on Providence because of the synergies it enables for them. If we deny them Providence and insist on Pawtucket, I'm not sure we'll have a team at all. We have leverage, but the lever is only so long. We can move hills, but not mountains.
Not to try to demystify this, but it's business. These fellows bought this team to make money and staying in RI, moving to PVD on I-195 land, is their plan to make money. The question is, is the move a good one for Providence? Is it the best use of the land to create middle income jobs for the state? Since the land, in question, was set aside for a park, does this new proposed, multi-use "public" plan create more jobs than a public park? Probably. Are the stadium jobs middle income jobs? Probably not. Does the stadium create more middle income jobs than biotech or most other promising uses? Probably not. Are companies which produce middle income jobs going to rush in to be next to a small stadium? Why would they? Lots of questions?
It will be interesting to see how much city/state subsidy they ask for to make their numbers work.
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
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^ Agreed, with this qualifier. Public parks are important to a healthy, vibrant city. Their impact should not be zeroed out of the equation, if you know what I mean.
RI is overextended. This should not make us too frightened to take calculated risks, because we need to grow. Providence, and all of Rhode Island, is a fantastic place with fantastic potential. We need to make smart decisions with our limited resources, in ways that catalyze further growth in our economy. And we need to keep these businessmen accountable to the taxpayers.
The new ownership group is headed by Larry Lucchino, president and chief executive officer of the parent Boston Red Sox, and Providence attorney James J. Skeffington. Lucchino will add the title of chairman of the PawSox to his Boston responsibilities, and Skeffington will serve as club president. Other partners include Rhode Island businessmen Bernard Cammarata, William P. Egan, Habib Gorgi, J. Terrence Murray and Thomas M. Ryan, as well as Fenway Sports Management (a division of the BoSox' parent company, Fenway Sports Group), and two limited partners in the Boston club and FSG, Arthur E. Nicholas and Frank M. Resnek. The new owners said that Tamburro, Schwechheimer and the PawSox staff will remain with the team.
The Boston Red Sox according to Forbes is the third richest baseball franchise in the country. They don't need subsidization from Little Rhody.
The new ownership group is headed by Larry Lucchino, president and chief executive officer of the parent Boston Red Sox, and Providence attorney James J. Skeffington. Lucchino will add the title of chairman of the PawSox to his Boston responsibilities, and Skeffington will serve as club president. Other partners include Rhode Island businessmen Bernard Cammarata, William P. Egan, Habib Gorgi, J. Terrence Murray and Thomas M. Ryan, as well as Fenway Sports Management (a division of the BoSox' parent company, Fenway Sports Group), and two limited partners in the Boston club and FSG, Arthur E. Nicholas and Frank M. Resnek. The new owners said that Tamburro, Schwechheimer and the PawSox staff will remain with the team.
The Boston Red Sox according to Forbes is the third richest baseball franchise in the country. They don't need subsidization from Little Rhody.
As august and rich as the ownership group is. Anyone want to bet they won't ask for something for the city/state?? And get it?
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
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Quote:
Originally Posted by independent man
As august and rich as the ownership group is. Anyone want to bet they won't ask for something for the city/state?? And get it?
Your first question is a sucker's bet! They've already asked for "support" in the form of land and tax "stabilization", i.e. corporate welfare.
Sports economists don't think there is a benefit to be derived here. Andrew Zimbalist, a well regarded sports economist at Smith College, was quoted in a Bloomberg News story back in 2013:
"If taxpayers are supporting a stadium because they believe it'll help their city socially and culturally, then fine," Zimbalist said. "If they're doing it because they've been sold a bill of goods that it'll be a boost to the economy, then no, it's not a good expenditure of funds."
Your first question is a sucker's bet! They've already asked for "support" in the form of land and tax "stabilization", i.e. corporate welfare.
Sports economists don't think there is a benefit to be derived here. Andrew Zimbalist, a well regarded sports economist at Smith College, was quoted [url="http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20131225/business/712259975/"]in sold a bill of goods that it'll be a boost to the economy, then no, it's not a good expenditure of funds."[/b][/color]
Uh, is this like, you know, a revelation to you? This has been true for decades. But nice to visit memory lane...
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
3,795 posts, read 2,696,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfieBoy
Uh, is this like, you know, a revelation to you? This has been true for decades. But nice to visit memory lane...
Of course it's nothing new. Zimbalist and other sports economists made the same argument back when the New England Patriots were threatening to go to Hartford, and when the Boston Red Sox wanted to build in South Boston. Uh, I just, you know, thought it might be relevant to the discussion of the Paw Sox, particularly since the same economic development arguments are being trotted out. I'm glad you enjoyed your visit down memory lane, even if you did not manage to find the trip relevant...
If the argument is the stadium should be built for cultural or social reasons and not economic ones, it should probably lose. Depending on you definition of culture, does a minor league baseball stadium really add much to our cultural landscape? We're talking Providence Rhode Island not Topeka Kansas.
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This has been true for decades. But nice to visit memory lane...
