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I find it curious that you abandoned your usual "DL/DR" posting style... I wonder why.
You mean tl;dr? It's because I'm learning more about rhetoric every day. Hopefully my last post made up for it. Personally, I think brief sentiments are very rarely worth saying, but those are what get people's attention.
Speaking of alternative realities, you twist my words: I was talking not about plumbers or a mother with three children, or those in Podunk where there is and will not be public transit.
No, I was talking about you, Hollytree from the urban, transit-rich ES of PVD who has stated that she can afford to be a single driver in spite of her options for public transit. That is why I used the term "selfish," because that's what it is. I can buy one two or three carbon burners, but that's not how I relate to the planet or to my own values as an urban creature. It's not about money, holly, it's indeed about morals.
No, public transit isn't an option for all, but it is for many. This greed is what's warming the planet. Where in God's name is your sense of being part of the solution? And they say kids are selfish!
OH please, you know nothing of me and your judgmental attitude is repugnant. I could make similar snap judgments about you personally as well but I won't because I'm not that kind of person. Every single thing we do and eat contributes to carbon- where the heck do you think the food you buy in the grocery comes from? Why don't you grow your own and spin your own cloth while you're at it? No heat in the winter either- you'll be burning something. Enough nonsense. And non polluting autos were possible decades ago but we never did get mass production because of the auto/oil/gas lobbyists - but that's another topic.
My question is- relating to tolls- why should RI be one of the only NE states (believe CT is the other) that is allowed no toll roads? Anyone who has driven north lately knows how many toll highways there are in MA and ME.
Last edited by Hollytree; 05-30-2015 at 05:52 AM..
I have a hypothesis that I can't prove -- it's just a suspicion, but it's a suspicion based on some knowledge of rhetoric and psychology. I fully admit I could be wrong. I hypothesize that your scorn for people who drive doesn't have anything to do with climate change at all. I think it has to do with a defensiveness born of your feeling that you're in the minority, a feeling of which humans are inherently afraid for very valid evolutionary reasons. You don't need or want a car, which is great -- there was a time in the pretty recent past when I didn't, either, and I have no regrets about that time. But it naturally makes you uncomfortable that you see so many people out there who make a car part of their lifestyle. Because of this discomfort, you have to frame your opposing opinion in terms of your own superiority and, consequently, in terms of the inferiority of your opponents.
Actually, for much of my life I was in the majority. Something like 80% of residents of Manhattan walk, bike or take mass transit, so we were the majority. And it's not "superiority," it a choice. I want to do as little damage as possible to the planet. So much for your foray into psychology.
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Originally Posted by Holly
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Every single thing we do and eat contributes to carbon- where the heck do you think the food you buy in the grocery comes from? Why don't you grow your own and spin your own cloth while you're at it? No heat in the winter either- you'll be burning something. Enough nonsense. And non polluting autos were possible decades ago but we never did get mass production because of the auto/oil/gas lobbyists - but that's another topic.
Fine, Holly, let's all do absolutely nothing -- nothing. I mean, what could possibly go wrong?
Another thing, we are a small state....how many trucks (passing through and using our bridges) stop and buy gas here....and help contribute to our road maintenance?
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
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Originally Posted by massnative71
We are already paying through the nose A Boy. If they hadn't all these years diverted gas tax and other auto related revenue, to unrelated spending (which we all know is mostly entitlements); then all the roads would be paved in gold today.
I have tried to fact check this political statement of yours, but I have yet to find any pertinent data to back it up. Do you have some evidence that Rhode Island has diverted its gas tax to entitlements? I did find a short-on-details Wall Street Journal article that claims a couple of states are using the funds for unrelated spending, but it implies that most are using gas tax revenues for debt service on highway projects. There was no mention of Rhode Island.
In fact, there is evidence that it is a misconception that gas taxes are adequate to fund road building and maintenance. US PIRG just released a report this month that finds:
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· Gas taxes and other fees paid by drivers now cover less than half of road construction and maintenance costs nationally – down from more than 70 percent in the 1960s – with the balance coming chiefly from income, sales and property taxes and other levies on general taxpayers.
· General taxpayers at all levels of government now subsidize highway construction and maintenance to the tune of $69 billion per year – an amount exceeding the expenditure of general tax funds to support transit, bicycling, walking and passenger rail combined.
· Regardless of how much they drive, the average American household bears an annual financial burden of more than $1,100 in taxes and indirect costs from driving – over and above any gas taxes or other fees they pay that are connected with driving.
It would be very "social" to abolish all the suburbs and areas farther than a few miles from the downtown core and mandate that no autos of any kind will be tolerated. Contractors will carry their tools and building materials on the bus as will landscapers and people shopping for a family … you really do live in an alternate reality. if young people want to rent forever and live without cars- fine. That is not a lifestyle adaptable to everyone and if you don't get that you're simply being close minded.
That's a bit of a straw man. The fact is that our infrastructure is designed to accommodate the peak fifteen minutes of traffic a day, when most people are driving the same route, by themselves, every day. If transit options were better and more attractive, then we wouldn't have as many roads and bridged to build and maintain and could more easily afford to keep the ones we have in good condition, so they can be used by those for whom transit isn't practical.
2. Cars use carbon fuels and contribute to climate change. This is not speculation, this is not a drill, this is not Al Gore speaking, this is reality. Those who use cars when other means are doable contribute to the demise of the planet. I won't be a part of this. Sooner or later, people will have to change this lifestyle and one aspect that will need changing is their use of single-occupant cars. Why not do it now? I could speculate, but it would alienate people: the obvious, introspective truth would be scorchingly painful.
Fuel burning and climate change are a minor part of the equation. For example, the reason the flooding of the Pawtuxet River has been worse than ever lately is because of all the surface runoff from roads and parking lots in Cranston and Warwick that used to be absorbed into the ground. There's also the fact that so much valuable real estate is allocated to accommodating and storing cars instead of being made usable for people.
I have tried to fact check this political statement of yours, but I have yet to find any pertinent data to back it up. Do you have some evidence that Rhode Island has diverted its gas tax to entitlements? I did find a short-on-details Wall Street Journal article that claims a couple of states are using the funds for unrelated spending, but it implies that most are using gas tax revenues for debt service on highway projects. There was no mention of Rhode Island.
A portion of the RI gas tax used to go to the General Fund; it was eliminated in 2010. The on;y "entitlement" funded by the gas tax is one cent to DHS to fund RIde.
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In fact, there is evidence that it is a misconception that gas taxes are adequate to fund road building and maintenance.
Not to mention that gas tax is a state revenue source, and zero goes to building and maintaining local streets.
A specific tax on trucks only is likely unconstitutional. If there is an issue with road maintenance in the state, then the gas tax needs to be replaced with a mileage tax on cars/trucks/etc. That way, you use the road a lot - you pay more for it.
And if the concern is that a significant fraction of the roads are used by out-of-state people (where is this evidence?), then you institute tolls on specific roads for everyone to pay, including tourists that flock to the beaches.
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
3,779 posts, read 2,683,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxjay
A specific tax on trucks only is likely unconstitutional. If there is an issue with road maintenance in the state, then the gas tax needs to be replaced with a mileage tax on cars/trucks/etc. That way, you use the road a lot - you pay more for it.
And if the concern is that a significant fraction of the roads are used by out-of-state people (where is this evidence?), then you institute tolls on specific roads for everyone to pay, including tourists that flock to the beaches.
Again, how is it unconstitutional? A variable rate, tiered by class of vehicle, is clearly allowed on some toll roads. Mass. does it. NH does it. Maine does it. What is to prevent one of those rate tiers being set to $0.00?
The gas tax does little to nothing to collect money from trucks passing through the state. What says they have to stop? And a mileage tax doesn't capture out of state vehicle use at all.
The argument is that trucks do the bulk of the damage to the roads...
Last edited by ormari; 06-02-2015 at 12:25 PM..
Reason: is it, not it is...
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