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Old 07-18-2015, 12:42 PM
 
Location: College Hill
2,903 posts, read 3,436,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicy J View Post
Literally so much of your concerns are what commuters from Green and Wickford Jct complain about. It sucks if you have a meeting or a busy day from work and miss the 5:45 from BBY. It's either go into Providence and get a ride, Uber/Taxi, or the bus. Actually there is a bus to the airport every 15-20 min (or maybe its every 1/2h) so it isn't too bad although as the bus is usually not #14 it takes awhile as it uses the surface roads.

It's funny that you mentioned the long time the 20min it takes the train to get to Providence. The tracks parallel 95 and I always see cars zooming by

It doesn't make business sense for the MBTA to increase trips to these far flung outposts. Indeed, we need more trains from PVD to BOS and if that means shutting down these southern stops, then that should be done.
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:07 PM
 
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Don't park at S Attleboro, if you want to return to your vehicle still there and in one piece.
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Old 07-18-2015, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
3,609 posts, read 2,615,395 times
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^That's right. The people who park at S. Attleboro lot on a daily basis plan ahead and have a new car delivered at train arrival so they can leave the pieces of the old one behind.

Keep bringing the FUD!
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
3,609 posts, read 2,615,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfieBoy View Post
It doesn't make business sense for the MBTA to increase trips to these far flung outposts. Indeed, we need more trains from PVD to BOS and if that means shutting down these southern stops, then that should be done.
There is an effort underway to expand rail usage in the state by RIDOT in partnership with MBTA.

I agree that we need more trains from PVD to BOS. However, when it comes to the "far flung outposts," you have to recognize that there are going to be some growing pains as they work to develop ridership, and subsequently improve service if successful in doing so. It might not make business sense in the short term, but if we want to get people out of their cars and onto public transportation, we have to look beyond the short term. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.
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Old 07-19-2015, 06:51 AM
 
Location: College Hill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ormari View Post
There is an effort underway to expand rail usage in the state by RIDOT in partnership with MBTA.

I agree that we need more trains from PVD to BOS. However, when it comes to the "far flung outposts," you have to recognize that there are going to be some growing pains as they work to develop ridership, and subsequently improve service if successful in doing so. It might not make business sense in the short term, but if we want to get people out of their cars and onto public transportation, we have to look beyond the short term. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.
Well it would appear RIDOT has fallen short of its goals. An average of 27 passengers alight for each of the ten northbound trains daily. And RIDOT cannot change Rhode Islanders aversion to public transport. Pain will. Make it so painful to drive (tolls, random stop-and-frisk of car drivers, planting drugs on drivers and popping them, increased anti-drunk driving checkpoints. etc). These are the things that get people right with the Lord, transportation-wise. Rule by fear, and it can affect positive change, transportation-wise, I am certain of that. I mean, it's working pretty well for China, right?

MBTA has a limited and aging fleet. The 35 minutes in each direction to get a handful of people to PVD/BOS just consumes too many rolling stock resources, and, cumulatively, ending this failed experience could conceivably mean two, maybe three additional bi-directional trips between the city and BOS. I think most reasonable people who happen to live in PVD would agree.
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Old 07-19-2015, 06:54 AM
 
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Does anyone have any numbers on how many people in Providence (and beyond) commute to Boston by any mode of transportation? The latest I could find suggests that ridership at Wickford Junction, while growing, is still far short of projections. In September 2014, fewer than 400 people were using it every day. Five from years from now, that number was supposed to be more than 3,000 -- so obviously it's pretty unlikely that's going to happen.

The station's defenders point out that Providence service was unpopular when it was introduced in the late '80s, but now it's one of the most heavily used stations in the network.

By contrast to Wickford, ridership at TF Green does match up with projections. It has similar ridership numbers to Wickford -- a little bit higher -- but in this case, the stated expectations were more modest. It's supposed to hit 500 daily riders by 2020. I don't know why the station closer to Boston in a much more densely populated area is supposed to get so many fewer riders, but that's why I'm not a transportation planner.

Personally, I've heard about a grand total of two people who commute to Boston on a daily basis from South County: the husband of a former co-worker and the neighbor of a friend, both in North Kingstown (though the former co-worker moved to Arizona, so we're down to one, I guess). These are pretty long commutes, so I doubt the numbers are very high.

There's a somewhat informal long-term goal to extend Boston commuter-rail service all the way to Westerly, then extend Shore Line East service there as well, making it possible to travel all the way from the Massachusetts-New Hampshire border to Delaware exclusively on commuter rail (as unlikely a scenario as that is). If similar connections are built in New Hampshire and Delaware, as have been proposed, you could travel from New Hampshire all the way to Virginia! But all this is more cool than practical.
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Old 07-19-2015, 07:05 AM
 
Location: College Hill
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^ Oohhhh,, I love the idea of a patchwork of independent commuter rail authorities getting me from Providence to VA. Funny, I thought that was Amtrak's job, one it fails at every single day.

I think, while quaint and eco-dreamy, this fantasy of commuter rail to far-flung places like Warwick and Wickford is going to collide with fiscal reality. You'll soon become good friends with the RIPTA drivers on the #1 and #14.
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Old 07-19-2015, 07:36 AM
 
Location: College Hill
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Here's a link to a really insightful article of the folly of south-of-PVD MBTA service. Granted it's two years old but the article remains relevant.
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Old 07-19-2015, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
3,609 posts, read 2,615,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfieBoy View Post
Here's a link to a really insightful article of the folly of south-of-PVD MBTA service. Granted it's two years old but the article remains relevant.
That's a great article, and has some great comments. However, I'm not yet on board with you to kill the south county commuter rail. While I agree that more MBTA trains to Boston would help PVD tremendously, one claim in the comments there was that the MBTA says South Station can't accommodate more trains. I wonder if that is true. Anyone know?

Keeping MBTA access to the airport should help TF Green compete a little better with Logan.

Clearly, I'm going to have to do some additional reading, but no time right now to do so.

This was interesting reading too: MBTA: RI owes $6M for South County train losses | WPRI 12 Eyewitness News
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Old 07-19-2015, 09:49 AM
 
1,586 posts, read 2,137,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfieBoy View Post
Here's a link to a really insightful article of the folly of south-of-PVD MBTA service. Granted it's two years old but the article remains relevant.
I'm not saying that article doesn't make valid points, but it does suffer a bit from nothing-will-ever-changeism, which is becoming more common these days and is probably more widespread in Rhode Island than in most places. For example, the statement that in the vicinity of New England, only Boston and New York have good economies, as if that's an immutable truth that can't be helped and can only be dealt with. I thought it was particularly shortsighted that the article states matter-of-factly that a critical mass of density, employment and walkability has to be present in order for public transit to succeed. This ignores the basic fact that many American cities were insignificant (or even nonexistent) settlements until they grew around train stations.

I grew up on Long Island, home to the most heavily used commuter-rail system in the U.S. (and one of the only ones in the entire world that operates 24 hours a day, seven days a week). Where I'm from, otherwise a car-dependent area, everybody takes the train. Many Long Island Rail Road stations, if not most, are surrounded by walkable business districts, sometimes with high-density apartments close by. Without exactly knowing all the history, I don't believe these stations were placed where they were because of the business districts. The stations are spaced out a little too perfectly, and the density decreases a little too evenly as you fan out from the stations. Rather, it seems apparent that the business districts grew up around the train stations.

Here in Rhode Island, the Wickford Junction station is part of a planned mixed-use development including retail, housing and offices that doesn't look like it's made very much progress but is nonetheless the official plan. And Warwick has plans to turn the area around the TF Green station (well, around the airport, really, with the train station just being part of the plan) into the dense city center it lacks. Whether or not these plans will work is highly debatable, but what is less debatable is that they're in line with how rail transit has typically built thriving communities, rather than rail transit being built for thriving communities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ormari View Post
The further I got into this article, the more I got to thinking, But don't all public-transit systems operate at a loss? Then the article finally acknowledged it, which I'll give it credit for.
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