Elmwood neighborhood (Providence, Warwick, Cranston: real estate, to live, prices)
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The neighborhood is not nice by New Jersey standards forget rhode islands. He has a good point you should re read what he said maybe you misread it.
I didn't misread. But, however I have firsthand knowledge. I have lived there and know many who still do. They love Elmwood. So, my disagreement may hold more water than the negative opinion of someone who has never lived there and very likely knows no one who does now. It's the difference of opinion between someone who is informed and someone who is not. And, being from New Jersey(of all places), you should know the reputation harm that painting with an uninformed negative broad brush does.
I didn't misread. But, however I have firsthand knowledge. I have lived there and know many who still do. They love Elmwood. So, my disagreement may hold more water than the negative opinion of someone who has never lived there and very likely knows no one who does now. It's the difference of opinion between someone who is informed and someone who is not. And, being from New Jersey(of all places), you should know the reputation harm that painting with an uninformed negative broad brush does.
Im sorry but two things... One, what does being from New Jersey have to do with it when I lived in Warwick ri for ten years with many commutes though south providence. Two, you can by all means paint south providence with a broad negative brush. If there was one place in the country you could that would be a prime example of when that could be considered necessary. It's small concentrated amount of poverty justifies this. You are referring to a couple of well kept house holds surrounded by not so many others. Through the ten years of driving through there I saw very little signs of gentrification other than the building of a second CCRI campus on the south side. You call it negative. I call it educating people reading this who may have no clue what we're talking about.
Last edited by NewJerseyDevil679; 03-29-2017 at 05:26 AM..
Im sorry but two things... One, what does being from New Jersey have to do with it when I lived in Warwick ri for ten years with many commutes though south providence. Two, you can by all means paint south providence with a broad negative brush. If there was one place in the country you could that would be a prime example of when that could be considered necessary. It's small concentrated amount of poverty justifies this. You are referring to a couple of well kept house holds surrounded by not so many others. Through the ten years of driving through there I saw very little signs of gentrification other than the building of a second CCRI campus on the south side. You call it negative. I call it educating people reading this who may have no clue what we're talking about.
I fail to see why you deem it necessary to discourage people from attending a festival of historic houses in the area. Do you not see that as a positive impetus for change in the neighborhood?
I fail to see why you deem it necessary to discourage people from attending a festival of historic houses in the area. Do you not see that as a positive impetus for change in the neighborhood?
By all means go see the iconic houses. Just be aware of the risks is what I would tell them. And yes I do see the positivity it can bring to this section of south providence absolutely
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
3,730 posts, read 2,674,295 times
Reputation: 1585
Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
Like the last poster, I too am scratching my head at this. I do not know how one could affirm that Roxbury, Dorchester and Mattapan have "much deeper problems" than South Providence. Yes, Elmwood is part of South Providence. Is now, always has been. When combined; Roxbury, Dorchester, and Mattapan are probably larger than the entire CITY of Providence. They contain many different types of neighborhoods, I know safety wise I would take Neponset ANY day over just about anywhere in South Providence. Grove Hall, probably as dangerous or slightly more dangerous than anywhere in Providence. When it comes down to the worst vs. the worst of each city, it is already a lost battle even if one comes out slightly ahead. A ghetto is a ghetto, and I you couldn't pay me to live in any of the neighborhoods discussed here.
That head scratching can't be good, though I presume it is your robust skull that will prevent you from breaking through to grey matter. While there are some who lump Elmwood into South Providence, and neighboring communities do of course have some overlap as they transition from one to the other, they are in fact separate entities. Your statement that Elmwood "Is now, always has been" part of South Providence is flat out ridiculous. Things change. Elmwood has been called Elmwood for well over 150 years. Parts of it were part of Cranston, and you would have been looked upon as the village idiot to call it South Providence when it was part of Cranston.
These days, yes, there are some who lump the whole Southside of the city into the mish-mash moniker South Providence. These are people who have trouble resolving details with any reasonable resolution. The local media, which tends to oversimplify, does so routinely. That does lead to confusion about the different neighborhoods.
I just did a quick google search, and here is a snippet of what the city has to say about the name Elmwood:
Quote:
Originally Posted by City of Providence
The principal developer, Joseph J. Cooke, a native of Providence, purchased a large farm on the west side of the tract in 1843 and lived there, naming the estate "Elmwood." By the mid-1850's the name came to refer to the whole area now known as Elmwood and West Elmwood.
As you can see, the name has been around a long time.
Again, just as Wanskuck and Charles make up the "North End" for most Providence residents, some feel that Upper South Providence and Lower South Providence together comprise "South Providence" or the "Southside."
Note that they don't include Elmwood. I am not saying that there are not people who call Elmwood part of South Providence, but I am saying that they tend not to be residents of the city, and frequently have no idea what they are talking about.
While there are problems in Upper South Providence and Lower South Providence, and a history of disinvestment, in these neighborhoods too one finds a strong sense of community. Long term residents are aware there are problems, and there are some who are struggling to get the City and State to work with them to improve the situation.
As to Roxbury, Dorchester, Mattapan: again, I think each get an undeserved bad rap and aren't really "bad" when you zoom out and look nationally. I have friends in the Ashmont area and they like it. Stories from other friends up there lead me to believe the problems are worse than anywhere in Providence, but that is of course subjective. You are right in that it would be difficult to quantify objectively.
That head scratching can't be good, though I presume it is your robust skull that will prevent you from breaking through to grey matter. While there are some who lump Elmwood into South Providence, and neighboring communities do of course have some overlap as they transition from one to the other, they are in fact separate entities. Your statement that Elmwood "Is now, always has been" part of South Providence is flat out ridiculous. Things change. Elmwood has been called Elmwood for well over 150 years. Parts of it were part of Cranston, and you would have been looked upon as the village idiot to call it South Providence when it was part of Cranston.
These days, yes, there are some who lump the whole Southside of the city into the mish-mash moniker South Providence. These are people who have trouble resolving details with any reasonable resolution. The local media, which tends to oversimplify, does so routinely. That does lead to confusion about the different neighborhoods.
I just did a quick google search, and here is a snippit of what the city has to say about the name Elmwood:
As you can see, the name has been around a long time.
Note that they don't include Elmwood. I am not saying that there are not people who call Elmwood part of South Providence, but I am saying that they tend not to be residents of the city, and frequently have no idea what they are talking about.
While there are problems in Upper South Providence and Lower South Providence, and a history of disinvestment, in these neighborhoods too one finds a strong sense of community. Long term residents are aware there are problems, and there are some who are struggling to get the City and State to work with them to improve the situation.
As to Roxbury, Dorchester, Mattapan: again, I think each get an undeserved bad rap and aren't really "bad" when you zoom out and look nationally. I have friends in the Ashmont area and they like it. But stories from other friends up there lead me to believe the problems are worse than anywhwere in Providence, but that is of course subjective. You are right in that it would be difficult to quantify objectively.
You right and wrong. The southside of providence is a neighborhood. Upper south providence and lower south providence is technically south providence where most of the crime on the southside happens. But both Elmwood and south providence are both on the southside area so they can be lumped together. As for looking at it from a national view the southside of providence, Dorchester , Roxbury, and mattpan do not hold a candle to what I witnessed in urban New Jersey growing up in the 90s. Places in Newark, Camden, Trenton, and Paterson, compared to southside providence and southside boston is not even close. It's scary I will never commute through the bad parts of Newark to work as I would in Rhode Island. Overall you guys got some problems for sure but are very fortunate on the other hand.
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
3,730 posts, read 2,674,295 times
Reputation: 1585
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewJerseyDevil679
You right and wrong. The southside of providence is a neighborhood. Upper south providence and lower south providence is technically south providence where most of the crime on the southside happens. But both Elmwood and south providence are both on the southside area so they can be lumped together. As for looking at it from a national view the southside of providence, Dorchester , Roxbury, and mattpan do not hold a candle to what I witnessed in urban New Jersey growing up in the 90s. Places in Newark, Camden, Trenton, and Paterson, compared to southside providence and southside boston is not even close. It's scary I will never commute through the bad parts of Newark to work as I would in Rhode Island. Overall you guys got some problems for sure but are very fortunate on the other hand.
Oh, I never said Elmwood was not part of the Southside. I said it is not "South Providence".
I would state that the Southside is not a neighborhood, but a collection of neighborhoods. It is akin to the way the East Side is not a neighborhood, but a collection of neighborhoods. Nobody from Blackstone would lay claim to Mt. Hope as being in the same neighborhood! And yet they are both on the East Side.
Also from the City's website, linked in my post above:
Quote:
Originally Posted by City of Providence
In the early and mid 1970s the process of urban decay became more visible. Spot demolition of structures was common along the older streets. Vacant and abandoned housing caused blight and were particularly concentrated in the upper and middle sections of Elmwood. These blighting influences depressed property values and encouraged disinvestment. The neighborhood has been significantly revitalized, due largely to the work of area organizations.
Although Elmwood experienced significant demographic changes over the last decade, it remains one of the city's most ethnically, culturally and racially diverse neighborhoods. The ethnic and cultural diversity of the neighborhood is reflected in the commercial uses lining Elmwood Avenue and Broad Street, making these street two of the most interesting and dynamic thoroughfares in the city. These stores, restaurants and small businesses have always provided Elmwood residents, new immigrants and other residents of the Southside of Providence with places to find necessary services, to work, to eat and to shop.
Oh, I never said Elmwood was not part of the Southside. I said it is not "South Providence".
I would state that the Southside is not a neighborhood, but a collection of neighborhoods. It is akin to the way the East Side is not a neighborhood, but a collection of neighborhoods. Nobody from Blackstone would lay claim to Mt. Hope as being in the same neighborhood! And yet they are both on the East Side.
Also from the City's website, linked in my post above:
But Elmwood and south providence are both in the gerneral collections of neighborhoods which makes the south side. I do agree southside is not technically a neighborhood.
Im sorry but two things... One, what does being from New Jersey have to do with it when I lived in Warwick ri for ten years with many commutes though south providence. Two, you can by all means paint south providence with a broad negative brush. If there was one place in the country you could that would be a prime example of when that could be considered necessary. It's small concentrated amount of poverty justifies this. You are referring to a couple of well kept house holds surrounded by not so many others. Through the ten years of driving through there I saw very little signs of gentrification other than the building of a second CCRI campus on the south side. You call it negative. I call it educating people reading this who may have no clue what we're talking about.
What does being from New Jersey have to do with it? While I may know much of New Jersey is lovely, someone who has never traveled the state may have a negative impression from those who ignorantly stigmatize the entire state because of the reputation of a few areas. Historic Elmwood suffers from the same ignorance. The people I know who live there could afford to live anywhere in Rhode Island, but choose Elmwood. So, I'll take them for their word!
Crime is dropping in all the cities being bashed in this thread, including Hartford which has a crime index of 564 as of 2015. Early Providence was cited as being roughly 350. That's quite a difference.
I dont get it. Don't you live in the Mission Hill section of Roxbury? I mean, your Roxbury address should give you a perspective on what a "bad" neighborhood is, but then it also ought to give you perspective on just how preposterous it is to put Providence neighborhoods in the same league. Roxbury, Dorchester, Mattapan all have much deeper problems, and yet even they aren't bad compared to really bad neighborhoods from a national perspective. Your address also ought to give you a modicum of insight into the fact that these neighborhoods are also very "pockety", with better and worse spots. It's tricky for an outsider to suss that out.
I think there is a grain of truth to the Potemkin Village quip, and if one were really harnessing that cynism you apparently hold so close, one might even go so far as to say that the US is the ultimate Potemkin country. I do have to imagine, though, that there are cities more worthy of the title.
Thank you for playing! I do live in Roxbury (not Mission Hill, BTW), which on its worst day has 10 times the development of any of Providence's neighborhoods (including the darling East Side). Clearly, you have ABSOLUTELY NOT A CLUE about what you write, and this confirms it for me.
The fact that bigots on the Massachusetts forums - most of whom don't ever travel inside the 128/95 beltway - have proclaimed Boston's inner-city neighborhoods to be Baghdad-like death zones does nothing to alter the truth. Let me say it emphatically so that there's zero confusion in your mind: I know Boston, I know Boston's neighborhoods. I know Providence, I know Providence's neighborhoods, and what I said about Providence (as with what I've said about Warwick in other posts) is absolutely the case.
The difference between the neighborhoods you've mentioned in Boston versus 80% of Providence is that people actually WANT to live in places like Roxbury, Dorchester and Mattapan. Property values don't lie and they are growing astronomically in those places (particularly in Roxbury). I'm not so sure that's the case for the Cranston Street/Union Park ghetto, et. al.
But, you're completely missing the point: Providence's problems are - and have been - the longstanding result of a city government that has zero vision west of 95 (even Federal Hill is dicey from a sustainability standpoint). As is typically the case with posters on the RI forum, I'm sorry if reality bites, but reality is reality.
Oh, and as a final point, "cynicism" is just another word for "seeing the world as it is" in these times, where facts and "the truth" are seemingly endlessly debatable.
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While there are some who lump Elmwood into South Providence, and neighboring communities do of course have some overlap as they transition from one to the other, they are in fact separate entities. Your statement that Elmwood "Is now, always has been" part of South Providence is flat out ridiculous. Things change. Elmwood has been called Elmwood for well over 150 years. Parts of it were part of Cranston, and you would have been looked upon as the village idiot to call it South Providence when it was part of Cranston. 
