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Ok, mr2448, I generally trust what you have to say. Are you saying that the residents of Elmwood themselves referred to the area as being part of South Providence? And, importantly, was the usage universal? Because of the Elmwood lifers I've met, I have not met any who refer to Elmwood as "South Providence", but maybe I will eventually. People from the 'burbs, it is a mix.
MR2448 is exactly correct. Maybe you have not met any Elmwood 'lifers' who refer to it as South Prov because they don't want to admit it was always considered an undesirable area.
MR2448 is exactly correct. Maybe you have not met any Elmwood 'lifers' who refer to it as South Prov because they don't want to admit it was always considered an undesirable area.
How about they don't refer to Elmwood as South Providence because they simply live in Elmwood, not South Providence? What's considered as desirable, is in the eye of the beholder. Can't we just leave it at that?
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
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Quote:
Originally Posted by independent man
I have never heard Elmwood residents refer to their neighborhood as South Providence. South Providence is South Providence, not Washington Park or Reservoir Triangle or Elmwood. However, they do consider Elmwood being located generally on the "South Side". Not unlike the various neighborhoods considered generally on the "East Side." Or like the Armory or West Broadway being located on the "West Side." Actual neighborhoods and general sides of the city are entirely different animals.
That perfectly describes the common usage by current denizens of Providence, as far as my experience goes, and jives with the way the city describes the neighborhoods.
There is of course the possibility that different social circles use different terminology.
The fact that bigots on the Massachusetts forums - most of whom don't ever travel inside the 128/95 beltway - have proclaimed Boston's inner-city neighborhoods to be Baghdad-like death zones does nothing to alter the truth.
How did you get that from "Roxbury, Dorchester, Mattapan...aren't bad compared to really bad neighborhoods from a national perspective"?
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuilterChick
MR2448 is exactly correct. Maybe you have not met any Elmwood 'lifers' who refer to it as South Prov because they don't want to admit it was always considered an undesirable area.
You use terms like "always", but the stunning quality of the housing stock makes it clear it was once a very desirable area. It's well known that Elmwood went through a decline with the rise of interstate highway system and subsequent white flight from the city, as is common throughout American cities, and that decline happens to coincide with the peak of your life. But the area has seen a comeback from the bad old days you recall. Things go in cycles; neighborhoods rise, fall, and rise again. People, on the other hand, get but one peak in life.
Yes, the Elmwood area has an excellent Victorian housing stock, but I can think of nothing else to recommend it whatsoever. I lived on Mawney Street for a couple of years, and the area is a slum. There are rampant drugs, street level alcoholism, gang activity and tons of prostitution.
How about they don't refer to Elmwood as South Providence because they simply live in Elmwood, not South Providence? What's considered as desirable, is in the eye of the beholder. Can't we just leave it at that?
I was one of the original founders of the Reservoir Triangle Association back in the early 80's. The point of the group was to redefine our area. South of Elmwood, east of what was normally known as South Providence, but our area was still known to be part of South Providence, not even Elmwood. Whoever you talk to now about being Elmwood lifers? Well, they must be there from the early 70's at most. Most, if not all, of the residents of South Providence, and it did not have a negative connotation to it back in the 60's and early 70's, are long gone. The area was primarily Irish, English and Jewish. If you lived on Princeton Ave, Ontario Ave, Niagara St., Warrington Ave, etc. You knew you lived in South Providence, but the Elmwood section. If you went to the Elmwood Theater you would refer to it as South Providence. South Providence had a broad frame of reference. Today, not as much, as it is more important to be in Elmwood as opposed to South Providence. Before South Providence deteriorated noone cared about Elmwood as a section of the city. Washington Park was more clearly defined with its own center of commerce on Broad Street. Main Streets were more important for reference, especially as areas deteriorated
I was one of the original founders of the Reservoir Triangle Association back in the early 80's. The point of the group was to redefine our area. South of Elmwood, east of what was normally known as South Providence, but our area was still known to be part of South Providence, not even Elmwood. Whoever you talk to now about being Elmwood lifers? Well, they must be there from the early 70's at most. Most, if not all, of the residents of South Providence, and it did not have a negative connotation to it back in the 60's and early 70's, are long gone. The area was primarily Irish, English and Jewish. If you lived on Princeton Ave, Ontario Ave, Niagara St., Warrington Ave, etc. You knew you lived in South Providence, but the Elmwood section. If you went to the Elmwood Theater you would refer to it as South Providence. South Providence had a broad frame of reference. Today, not as much, as it is more important to be in Elmwood as opposed to South Providence. Before South Providence deteriorated noone cared about Elmwood as a section of the city. Washington Park was more clearly defined with its own center of commerce on Broad Street. Main Streets were more important for reference, especially as areas deteriorated
All the streets off Allen Av., (Including Allen) were the ghettos, and many still are. The others are marginal.
i.e. Potters Av., Eddy St. and all the 'cross streets) off those between Prairie & Broad; Reservoir Av., Elmwood Av., Washington Square, Broad St., the Dexter areas; any and all streets leading out of the City of Prov. Valley St., Harris Av., Smith St., Chalkstone Av. etc. You have an excellent memory !
All the streets off Allen Av., (Including Allen) were the ghettos, and many still are. The others are marginal.
i.e. Potters Av., Eddy St. and all the 'cross streets) off those between Prairie & Broad; Reservoir Av., Elmwood Av., Washington Square, Broad St., the Dexter areas; any and all streets leading out of the City of Prov. Valley St., Harris Av., Smith St., Chalkstone Av. etc. You have an excellent memory !
Quilter, it seems like yesterday
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