Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
3,795 posts, read 2,696,474 times
Reputation: 1609
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
???
The positives I recall from that era were a viable Financial District full of employees, the Arcade was still going strong, etc...
But over there? I think the mall/Waterplace immensely improved the looks of that end of the city, from both downtown as well as the view when driving along 95.
You know, negatives. Like, from film photography...
Count me among those who don't really understand the fuss about the mall. I prefer a true downtown experience to the importation of suburban mall culture. I've repeatedly heard that it killed shops downtown much as mp775 said. And the amount of money in subsidies they got to put that thing in is probably criminal.
Quote:
Born in controversy and opened in August, 1999, the mall is the most expensive development project in the history of Rhode Island. Costing around $500 million and featuring 165 stores, restaurants, and kiosks, the mall represents a novel experiment in urban redevelopment. It tests the proposition that downtown retailing can work in the 21st century and that malls can be an engine of economic development and urban revitalization.
Did downtown revitalize because of the mall, or was revitalization inevitable and the mall happened to be a good vehicle to funnel money to connected developers under the guise of revitalization?
Downtown is thriving and the mall is dying. You can infer an answer. I do think the mall was well intentioned, though, and not a handout to any "connected developer."
No need to get morbid. There are still plenty of stores in the mall and Boscov's is coming in place of Nordstrom's.
But if it does decline, there are many ways malls are being re-imagined. One is to offer fewer retail experiences and more "experiences", such as indoor playgrounds, exercise gyms, health care destinations like mini clinics- all kinds of things that people might want to visit.
A lot of malls across the country, especially suburban ones, are simply being repurposed (schools, housing, office space, etc. ) and not torn down.
You know, negatives. Like, from film photography...
I understand that, thank you. Heck, I'm even old enough to remember Polaroid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ormari
Count me among those who don't really understand the fuss about the mall. I prefer a true downtown experience to the importation of suburban mall culture. I've repeatedly heard that it killed shops downtown much as mp775 said. And the amount of money in subsidies they got to put that thing in is probably criminal.
Did downtown revitalize because of the mall, or was revitalization inevitable and the mall happened to be a good vehicle to funnel money to connected developers under the guise of revitalization?
I think I visited the mall once when it fist opened up, just to see what it was all about and to say I had "been". Never felt the desire to go back again.
To be fair, downtown retail had already been on a downward slide for a good decade leading up to the mall's existence. Mostly what was left circa 1999 was a few riff raffy stores. The Arcade was dead. The mall didn't really take away from downtown, yet I do think it was a significant "part of" downtown's revival and a boost to the city's image. Like has already been noted, it primarily served people driving in from outside (as well as become a hangout for local thugs as could be predicted). I don't think it really competed with what was left of the traditional downtown shopping. What it did was capture customers who otherwise would have gone to Warwick or Emerald Square, IMO a win for Providence while malls in general were still viable.
I understand that, thank you. Heck, I'm even old enough to remember Polaroid.
Remember those funky little Fotomat buildings in the middle of parking lots?
Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
To be fair, downtown retail had already been on a downward slide for a good decade leading up to the mall's existence. Mostly what was left circa 1999 was a few riff raffy stores. The Arcade was dead. The mall didn't really take away from downtown, yet I do think it was a significant "part of" downtown's revival and a boost to the city's image. Like has already been noted, it primarily served people driving in from outside (as well as become a hangout for local thugs as could be predicted). I don't think it really competed with what was left of the traditional downtown shopping. What it did was capture customers who otherwise would have gone to Warwick or Emerald Square, IMO a win for Providence while malls in general were still viable.
Yep, the shops downtown were already dead. They actually had been dead since the late 70s / early 80s. Suburban mall culture killed them. Downtown was pretty much a ghost town during the 80s. Some shops came back in the 90s but nobody really cared. The shops downtown only started making a legitimate comeback in recent years.
Remember those funky little Fotomat buildings in the middle of parking lots?
Yep, the shops downtown were already dead. They actually had been dead since the late 70s / early 80s. Suburban mall culture killed them. Downtown was pretty much a ghost town during the 80s. Some shops came back in the 90s but nobody really cared. The shops downtown only started making a legitimate comeback in recent years.
I can't pinpoint the actual year(s) when they took the streets out of certain sections of Providence. I truly believe that was the downfall for Providence. No car traffic and not a lot of foot traffic. Then, slowly, the stores went either belly up or went to the Warwick Mall for the parking lots etc. and nice shiny new stores.
Even downtown Santa Claus hi tailed it outta' Prov. Places like Tilden-Thurber, the best jewelry store and other 'bests' were some of the last to go. TT probably lost a lot of business to Ross-Simons in their hey day over near the Warwick Mall, and that was also a great store. Now -- 'neh.
I can't pinpoint the actual year(s) when they took the streets out of certain sections of Providence. I truly believe that was the downfall for Providence. No car traffic and not a lot of foot traffic. Then, slowly, the stores went either belly up or went to the Warwick Mall for the parking lots etc. and nice shiny new stores.
Even downtown Santa Claus hi tailed it outta' Prov. Places like Tilden-Thurber, the best jewelry store and other 'bests' were some of the last to go. TT probably lost a lot of business to Ross-Simons in their hey day over near the Warwick Mall, and that was also a great store. Now -- 'neh.
Retail has proven to be more an art than science. Making Westminster Street a pedestrian walkway was a last gasp gamble downtown that failed. Providence Place was a gamble that failed. The huge & once thriving Warwick Mall looked to be the auto-shopping answer of the future. Look at it now.
Who would have thought Garden City, that onetime shabby suburban relic of past decades, would be such a success (for now)? Will Amazon & the internet finally kill it all? Who knows. A certain segment of the population shops for pure recreation. I doubt if they'll be satisfied sitting in front of a computer to get their exercise.
Retail has proven to be more an art than science. Making Westminster Street a pedestrian walkway was a last gasp gamble downtown that failed. Providence Place was a gamble that failed. The huge & once thriving Warwick Mall looked to be the auto-shopping answer of the future. Look at it now.
Who would have thought Garden City, that onetime shabby suburban relic of past decades, would be such a success (for now)? Will Amazon & the internet finally kill it all? Who knows. A certain segment of the population shops for pure recreation. I doubt if they'll be satisfied sitting in front of a computer to get their exercise.
With regard to Garden City: location / location / location And, not having to go into 'the city' for anything.
I also believe that shopping online is putting a lot of mediocre stores out of business. Land's End; LLBean; ZuLily, Wayfair, Overstock, Zappos …. and so forth. Discount 'malls' with the name brand stores located 'outside' of cities are popular as well. Only a sparse few can go Nordstrom's and buy a $400 ladies sweater and follow it up with another $400 of cosmetics and $400 for shoes. That is not even considering the average 3-child family that has to be fed, clothed, kept healthy and educated.
Have to add: middle class working folks in RI can't spend a lot at the malls or 'downtown' because they have to pay for RI's high cost of living first.
With regard to Garden City: location / location / location And, not having to go into 'the city' for anything.
I also believe that shopping online is putting a lot of mediocre stores out of business. Land's End; LLBean; ZuLily, Wayfair, Overstock, Zappos …. and so forth. Discount 'malls' with the name brand stores located 'outside' of cities are popular as well. Only a sparse few can go Nordstrom's and buy a $400 ladies sweater and follow it up with another $400 of cosmetics and $400 for shoes. That is not even considering the average 3-child family that has to be fed, clothed, kept healthy and educated.
Have to add: middle class working folks in RI can't spend a lot at the malls or 'downtown' because they have to pay for RI's high cost of living first.
With Garden City, location is probably only part of it. The "village" type layout seems to be in favor now with today's shoppers. It hasn't always been so. Add convenient parking and it's a winner. Just a few decades ago this formula didn't work as well. Shoppers didn't want to go outdoors (especially in the winter) in order to go from store to store.
Last edited by independent man; 10-14-2018 at 08:12 AM..
With regard to Garden City: location / location / location And, not having to go into 'the city' for anything.
Yes that's a big one, when you have most of the customers of these stores living in the suburbs...
On a demographics basis Providence Place drew from the surrounding suburbs (which is all good as it brought $$$ into Providence that otherwise would have gone to Warwick, and the whole idea around the mall concept), it did have a local clientele too but they (well, you know) didn't necessarily "spend money" there.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
, the Arcade was still going strong, etc...
Heck, I'm even old enough to remember Polaroid.
Places like Tilden-Thurber, the best jewelry store and other 'bests' were some of the last to go. TT probably lost a lot of business to Ross-Simons in their hey day over near the Warwick Mall, and that was also a great store. Now -- 'neh.
