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Old 12-28-2018, 04:13 AM
 
7,970 posts, read 4,627,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redplum33 View Post
It's not even clear if the city owns the water supply. So, attempting to monetize it may not even be possible.

As for an alternative, sure.

Let's start by getting rid of this sanctuary city stuff. Tens of thousands of people living in Providence are not US citizens and pay no tax. Crack down on this and replace them with tax paying citizens.

Next, a major crackdown on crime is in order. Contrary to what some uninformed C-D members believe, crime in Providence is out of control. When a murder on Fountain St is nothing more than a blip on the radar, there's a serious problem.

There's been way too much focus on making certain parts of the city look pretty. Meanwhile, the rest of the city has been ignored and crime has become rampant throughout nearly the entire city.

(Crime stat freaks - please don't even bother. Anyone who spends any significant amount of time in the city knows what's up.)

Elorza can't seem to grasp that his efforts are pointless when people don't want to go to Providence because of the crime. And if people don't want to go there, money isn't being spent there. And if money isn't being spent there, the city isn't getting squat.

It's really not that difficult to comprehend. You want tax money? Make the city inviting by eliminating the vast majority of the crime. While controversial, implementing stop-and-frisk may be exactly what's needed.
Yes, reducing crime would be nice. The problem under discussion in this thread is coming up with the substantial money to reduce the city's $1b unfunded pension liability. It is only 25% funded. There will be a debate on who owns the Water Supply. If the courts determine Providence doesn't own it, the only Plan B I've heard is bankruptcy.
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Old 12-28-2018, 06:28 AM
 
23,298 posts, read 18,461,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redplum33 View Post
It's not even clear if the city owns the water supply. So, attempting to monetize it may not even be possible.

As for an alternative, sure.

Let's start by getting rid of this sanctuary city stuff. Tens of thousands of people living in Providence are not US citizens and pay no tax. Crack down on this and replace them with tax paying citizens.

Next, a major crackdown on crime is in order. Contrary to what some uninformed C-D members believe, crime in Providence is out of control. When a murder on Fountain St is nothing more than a blip on the radar, there's a serious problem.

There's been way too much focus on making certain parts of the city look pretty. Meanwhile, the rest of the city has been ignored and crime has become rampant throughout nearly the entire city.

(Crime stat freaks - please don't even bother. Anyone who spends any significant amount of time in the city knows what's up.)

Elorza can't seem to grasp that his efforts are pointless when people don't want to go to Providence because of the crime. And if people don't want to go there, money isn't being spent there. And if money isn't being spent there, the city isn't getting squat.

It's really not that difficult to comprehend. You want tax money? Make the city inviting by eliminating the vast majority of the crime. While controversial, implementing stop-and-frisk may be exactly what's needed.
There is definitely a widespread neglect of the "other" Providence that no matter how much the East Siders, etc. want to ignore it, it casts a wide dark cloud over the city. A CITY cannot survive off of luring tourists to downtown. It needs to get its act together and take action in the neighborhoods. YES, crime is a huge hindrance. Stop-and-frisk would be very beneficial, it certainly worked wonders in NYC. Last I saw, that new buffoon mayor down there was trying to end it and reverse decades of progress. Amazingly, it's the same people crying out against its "abuses" who actually benefitted the most from the lower crime rates.


But that is all part of a long term solution to a more sustainable, healthier Providence. The pension problem is an immediate issue to contend with, with the only solution outside bankruptcy being a large infusion of cash be it either this water sale or large scale development of new taxable property. Elorza clearly doesn't want the latter.
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Old 12-28-2018, 06:30 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,842,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by independent man View Post
Yes, reducing crime would be nice. The problem under discussion in this thread is coming up with the substantial money to reduce the city's $1b unfunded pension liability. It is only 25% funded. There will be a debate on who owns the Water Supply. If the courts determine Providence doesn't own it, the only Plan B I've heard is bankruptcy.


Yeah, different topic. 11 murders in a year, I'm amazed that its that small. Places that are actually dangerous would have double that, or more, per capita as in a place like Camden... which isn't as dangerous as it even used to be. Sure, package thefts and even worse, the wheel stealing is pretty bad, but that's urban living.


Never heard anyone in my life, people who visit, or people who think Providence is unsafe or are nervous to visit. The city is lively and people are out and about. But I guess there are lots of people scared of their own shadow though living in basements or moved to rural areas out of fear, or gated communities.


What the city needs is better jobs, and expansion of the economy. That's really the cure for most woes. It needs to better leverage its assets... having more people live here and commute to better paying Mass jobs but spend their money in this city which is pretty stellar for the cost, is great, and helpful, but for real improvement of the base financials and expanded economy is needed.
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Old 12-28-2018, 06:47 AM
 
23,298 posts, read 18,461,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Never heard anyone in my life, people who visit, or people who think Providence is unsafe or are nervous to visit.
I can see why a typical tourist who visits College Hill, or DT/Federal Hill, etc.; then gets right back on 95 to head home would have that impression.


Many people today also lack basic street smarts, cannot recognize danger even if they stumbled over it. OR they are of the ultra-PC nature, use code words like "diversity" etc. instead of calling it what it is.
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Old 12-28-2018, 07:01 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,842,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
I can see why a typical tourist who visits College Hill, or DT/Federal Hill, etc.; then gets right back on 95 to head home would have that impression.

Sure, but the people I know living on the South side near Roger Williams Park, in the Armory area, in Olneyville, whatever the Providence College area is called, or wherever find this city to have an unsafe feeling. I'm out in these areas multiple times a week, it would be hard pressed to feel unsafe in any of them... I was told by some kid here that Olneyville is supposed to be sketchy, but I'm there after midnight more weekends than not and its pretty whatever. Some really good music/arts spaces over there doing cool stuff. Heck, if people find Providence to be crime ridden, god forbid they visit some place like Wichita KS which is about twice the size and had over 80 murders to Providence's 11 and loads more violent crime. They would think Kansas is a warzone. LOL.






Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
Many people today also lack basic street smarts, cannot recognize danger even if they stumbled over it.
Well this is true. If you have a clue its pretty easy to avoid sketchy stuff, but a lot of people live online as opposed to real life and never developed street smarts at all.


Anyway, off topic. Expanding the economy with decent paying jobs is really the path out.

Last edited by timberline742; 12-28-2018 at 07:22 AM..
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Old 12-28-2018, 07:41 AM
 
7,970 posts, read 4,627,318 times
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^^^^^^^^
Yes, expanding the economy with decent paying jobs is the way to a successful long term strategy. However, bankruptcy will not get Providence there. In fact, it's almost the exact screed the clueless politicians use as the solution to the $1b unfunded pension liability.
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Old 12-28-2018, 07:52 AM
 
23,298 posts, read 18,461,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by independent man View Post
^^^^^^^^
Yes, expanding the economy with decent paying jobs is the way to a successful long term strategy. However, bankruptcy will not get Providence there. In fact, it's almost the exact screed the clueless politicians use as the solution to the $1b unfunded pension liability.
It will at least stabilize city finances, which in turn has the potential to bring more investment into the city.
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Rhode Island
9,260 posts, read 14,837,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by independent man View Post
Getting out of the pension problem by providing new hires with less or no benefit doesn't work. The volume of existing living pensioners is too heavy compared with the relatively few new hires today. Very few leaves city employment until they're ready for a pension. New hires in the city are few & far in between.

The union jobs which don't require a bachelor's degree are indeed considered very desirable compared to the private sector. As the education requirement rises, city jobs tend to have equal salaries or even less than the equivalent private sector employment.
I would add that the city was notorious for handing out jobs as political appointments to the semi or barely qualified. Added to that was the criminal behavior of the ones who went out on dubious disability claims and were not followed up by investigators a couple years later. For these reasons, the prudent thing to do might be to go the bankruptcy route or threaten it in order to renegotiate the current pensions- i.e., what the state has already done. But then again, corruption in politics has not changed, so that is going to be tough to pull off.

Raising taxes to cover 1 billion in increased tax revenue is a pipe dream at this point -especially when all the new builds get 20 year tax abatements.
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Old 12-28-2018, 09:14 AM
 
Location: The ghetto
17,381 posts, read 8,969,883 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by independent man View Post
Yes, reducing crime would be nice. The problem under discussion in this thread is coming up with the substantial money to reduce the city's $1b unfunded pension liability. It is only 25% funded. There will be a debate on who owns the Water Supply. If the courts determine Providence doesn't own it, the only Plan B I've heard is bankruptcy.
I understand that. My theory looks at the big picture. Reducing crime would not only bring people to Providence to spend money, it would also bring in new businesses - which of course brings jobs. This would also lead to an increase in property values across the board. It's all linked together, and the end result is a lot more money for the city. Providence should attempt to emulate NYC in this regard.

And for those saying they've never heard of people not wanting to go to Providence because of the crime, look no further than how the Providence Place Mall is viewed.

Massnative may be correct that this situation requires immediate attention. How about a 3% city sales tax? People would pay 10% sales tax (instead of 7%) for purchases made in Providence. It would also apply to online purchases shipped to Providence.
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Old 12-28-2018, 09:34 AM
 
23,298 posts, read 18,461,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redplum33 View Post
Massnative may be correct that this situation requires immediate attention. How about a 3% city sales tax? People would pay 10% sales tax (instead of 7%) for purchases made in Providence. It would also apply to online purchases shipped to Providence.
Maybe a dining/alcohol tax would work. Going beyond that might hurt what little retail exists already, local spending money flowing out to Warwick or Mass. certainly isn't helping the situation.
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