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Partially outlawing slavery was weak tea, particularly to those left in bondage. When it comes to the practice of one segment of humanity legally owning another segment of humanity as chattel, half-measures aren't anywhere near good enough. If you're going to do away with a practice as barbaric as slavery, you'd better be committed to going all-in. Sorry, but half-measures don't cut it when you're dealing with human beings as property... goods that can be bartered and sold.
I thought you wanted to deal with "this country" which "began in 1776"? If so, let's not cite thousands of years of history elsewhere on the globe. That only serves to muddy the waters and distract attention away from what Americans can actually do something about. Let's address this nation's actions on the issue of slavery, as well as any other efforts to establish systemic racial inequality that have occurred since the signing of the Declaration of Independence.
Aspiring - aiming and hoping - towards "everyone being created equally" only proves inspirational for so long, particularly to those who don't truly get to enjoy said equality. At some point, the aspirations have to be backed up by effective and meaningful action that benefits everyone. The "original sin" sandsonik mentioned isn't just that slavery once existed in this nation, but the fact that well-meaning Americans in a position to do something about eradicating the practice elected to deal in half-measures and kicked the can down the road on the matter for just 11 years shy of a century after grandiosely declaring "all men are created equal".
And, sadly, not even the 13th Amendment to the United States Constitution actually settled the issue, as Black Codes, Jim Crow Laws, legalized segregation under separate-but-equal statutes, redlining, etcetera have all been part of an entrenched, systemic racism that has continued throughout this country's history to the present day.
In our individual lives, while it's easy and pleasant for us to bask in our triumphs, we tend to learn life's most important lessons from thoroughly and honestly examining those instances in which we've stumbled, fallen, or failed.
Let's do the same as a nation. Let's not rewrite America's history. Let's all of us look at all of that history... including those chapters of our nation's story that were not triumphs. Those chapters that, if we're being completely honest with ourselves, might make us feel uncomfortable and self-conscious. Let's address the chapters that might stir up feelings of guilt and shame. Because ignoring the difficult chapters of our nation's history, behaving as though generations of systemic racism haven't taken place, and pretending that everything's terrific for all Americans today because our slave-owning Founders elected to "aspire to everyone being created equally"... that's a form of rewriting history, as well.
When considering my profound good fortune to be a citizen of this great country, pride and gratitude appear far before "guilt and shame". I almost feel sorry for you. Almost.
When considering my profound good fortune to be a citizen of this great country, pride and gratitude appear far before "guilt and shame". I almost feel sorry for you. Almost.
Do you have some reason to believe her killer will not be prosecuted?
Here is a great example, in support of a great organization!
Imagine if HALF of the the angry protestors and vandals actually got INVOLVED and followed this guys lead, like you know put their energy into positive results oriented efforts? Think about how much healthier a city/world it would be.
"CRANSTON, R.I. (WPRI) ─ Jon Pincince will truly be going the distance for his 43rd birthday. Pincince is planning to run approximately 80 miles on Thursday, starting at the Buck Hill Management Area in Burrillvlle and ending at Blue Shutters Town Beach in Charlestown. Jon’s North-South Trail Run Schedule »
The decision to run the entire length of the state is not just for his own accomplishment, however. Pincince is running to raise money for the Nonviolence Institute in Providence."
When considering my profound good fortune to be a citizen of this great country, pride and gratitude appear far before "guilt and shame". I almost feel sorry for you. Almost.
Experiencing guilt and shame over certain American attitudes, actions, policies and pursuits throughout the nation's history doesn't mean you can't also feel pride and gratitude for other of the country's achievements. Recognizing, accepting, and correcting our nation's mistakes throughout its existence doesn't mean that we can't feel fortunate to call the USA home.
However, true greatness comes in facing up to one's failings, owning those mistakes, making amends for them, correcting them, and making sure that they're never made again. That holds true for a nation every bit as much as it does for an individual. Choosing to simply bask in our country's glories while simultaneously diminishing or outright ignoring the mistakes that the USA has made throughout its history is a gross dereliction of our duty as citizens. That is as true with regard to this nation's actions with regard to slavery, racial equity and civil rights as it is in any other area.
You have no reason to feel sorry for me. Even almost sorry for me. I am tremendously proud and grateful to be an American citizen. I love the United States of America enough to want it to be the greatest nation that it can possibly be. Which means that when the USA makes mistakes, rather than ignore them, I have a responsibility to insist that said missteps be corrected and never repeated. That's true of all Americans.
Experiencing guilt and shame over certain American attitudes, actions, policies and pursuits throughout the nation's history doesn't mean you can't also feel pride and gratitude for other of the country's achievements. Recognizing, accepting, and correcting our nation's mistakes throughout its existence doesn't mean that we can't feel fortunate to call the USA home.
Who can argue with that?
If only it in any way represented what the Far Left (now synonymous with the Democrats/Liberal Media) is advocating.
You ever heard of the Pulitzer Prize winning 1619 Project?
It teaches, for one, that the American Revolution was fought to protect the institution of slavery. That is not just inaccurate, it's insane.
It's also dangerous since, slowly but surely, certain school districts are beginning to teach this stuff to children.
Partially outlawing slavery was weak tea, particularly to those left in bondage. When it comes to the practice of one segment of humanity legally owning another segment of humanity as chattel, half-measures aren't anywhere near good enough. If you're going to do away with a practice as barbaric as slavery, you'd better be committed to going all-in. Sorry, but half-measures don't cut it when you're dealing with human beings as property... goods that can be bartered and sold.
I thought you wanted to deal with "this country" which "began in 1776"? If so, let's not cite thousands of years of history elsewhere on the globe. That only serves to muddy the waters and distract attention away from what Americans can actually do something about. Let's address this nation's actions on the issue of slavery, as well as any other efforts to establish systemic racial inequality that have occurred since the signing of the Declaration of Independence.
Aspiring - aiming and hoping - towards "everyone being created equally" only proves inspirational for so long, particularly to those who don't truly get to enjoy said equality. At some point, the aspirations have to be backed up by effective and meaningful action that benefits everyone. The "original sin" sandsonik mentioned isn't just that slavery once existed in this nation, but the fact that well-meaning Americans in a position to do something about eradicating the practice elected to deal in half-measures and kicked the can down the road on the matter for just 11 years shy of a century after grandiosely declaring "all men are created equal".
And, sadly, not even the 13th Amendment to the United States Constitution actually settled the issue, as Black Codes, Jim Crow Laws, legalized segregation under separate-but-equal statutes, redlining, etcetera have all been part of an entrenched, systemic racism that has continued throughout this country's history to the present day.
In our individual lives, while it's easy and pleasant for us to bask in our triumphs, we tend to learn life's most important lessons from thoroughly and honestly examining those instances in which we've stumbled, fallen, or failed.
Let's do the same as a nation. Let's not rewrite America's history. Let's all of us look at all of that history... including those chapters of our nation's story that were not triumphs. Those chapters that, if we're being completely honest with ourselves, might make us feel uncomfortable and self-conscious. Let's address the chapters that might stir up feelings of guilt and shame. Because ignoring the difficult chapters of our nation's history, behaving as though generations of systemic racism haven't taken place, and pretending that everything's terrific for all Americans today because our slave-owning Founders elected to "aspire to everyone being created equally"... that's a form of rewriting history, as well.
I do feel sorry for you after all. So you'd like to "address this nation's actions on the issue of slavery"? How, by feeling "uncomfortable and self-conscious"? By wallowing in "guilt and shame"? From your armchair of course. In your living room. As opposed to the legions of brave Union soldiers who died, y'know, actually addressing it. Please though, feel free to fill us in on YOUR plan. Really.
I do feel sorry for you after all. So you'd like to "address this nation's actions on the issue of slavery"? How, by feeling "uncomfortable and self-conscious"? By wallowing in "guilt and shame"? From your armchair of course. In your living room. As opposed to the legions of brave Union soldiers who died, y'know, actually addressing it. Please though, feel free to fill us in on YOUR plan. Really.
Wait a minute. So you can feel pride and gratitude on behalf of your forefathers who did good things but can't allow guilt or shame for those who didn't? Why is one vicarious emotion more valid than another?
I mean, you didn't die on behalf of your country either, yet you still claim the pride part of the equation
I do feel sorry for you after all. So you'd like to "address this nation's actions on the issue of slavery"? How, by feeling "uncomfortable and self-conscious"? By wallowing in "guilt and shame"? From your armchair of course. In your living room.
Since graduating from law school in 1961, I have done more to address racism - the successor to slavery that has long plagued our country - than sit in an armchair in my living room wallowing in guilt and shame. I spent the first 29 years of my career with the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice - the first 12 of those in my wife's home state of Alabama, the subsequent 17 in the DOJ's Boston office. Following my time with the Department of Justice, I went into private practice, handling all manner of civil rights law and often offering my services pro bono publico. Today, I continue to serve in a variety of capacities with both national and local civil rights organizations.
Since graduating from law school in 1961, I have done more to address racism - the successor to slavery that has long plagued our country - than sit in an armchair in my living room wallowing in guilt and shame. I spent the first 29 years of my career with the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice - the first 12 of those in my wife's home state of Alabama, the subsequent 17 in the DOJ's Boston office. Following my time with the Department of Justice, I went into private practice, handling all manner of civil rights law and often offering my services pro bono publico. Today, I continue to serve in a variety of capacities with both national and local civil rights organizations.
As opposed to the legions of brave Union soldiers who died, y'know, actually addressing it. Please though, feel free to fill us in on YOUR plan. Really.
I don't believe it sullies the memory of the brave Union soldiers you mention to recognize that not everyone who served in said force did so out of a commitment to eradicating the institution of slavery. While there were abolitionists amongst those serving in the Union Army, there were also those who simply wished to see the Union preserved and the 11 states of the Confederacy return to the fold of the United States of America.
In fact, Abraham Lincoln himself was a pragmatist on the issue of slavery. While Lincoln felt that slavery was morally repugnant, he conceded that he did not know what should be done about it within the context of the existing legal and political system of his era. In his fourth debate with Stephen Douglas during the 1858 presidential campaign, Lincoln stated that he was not in favor of bringing about the social and political equality of whites and blacks, going so far as to say that he was opposed to giving blacks the right to vote, hold public office, serve on juries, or intermarry with whites. As for his reasoning in engaging in a civil war with the U.S. states that seceded to form the Confederacy, Lincoln made no bones about it in correspondence with journalist Horace Greeley:
"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."
Last edited by E. Coyle; 07-06-2020 at 01:43 PM..
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