The economy in Rhode Island (Providence, Tiverton: school districts, college, taxes)

[dutch10]

Ummm...RNR you may want to read Rhodeislanders post again. I think the 100k is in reference to the total number of state and municipal employees not to their compensation. No matter how much you want to wave the pom-poms for Rhode Island, the bottom line is people are fleeing the state, the local economy does indeed suck and compensation for most state and municipal employees is way out of whack with what is being offered in the private sector around here.

[Rhodeislander]

Originally Posted by Rnrboy

You need to research your facts. The average state worker doesn't make close to a $100K. The rest of your misbegotten post follows suit.

100,000 workers are employed by the state or local government.

Please note what else is "misbegotten" I shall answer that as well.

[Rhodeislander]

Does anyone remember we hosted the Americas Cup?
We had the number one spot in the manufacture of costume jewelry?
Rhode Island has the resources and the people to be better, it just does not have the leadership. Its not the Governor nor local leadership. Its economic leadership, hwat in gods name had Rhode Island Economic Develpement done in the last 10 years? Sell tax credits to the ones that need it least? What happened to Quonset Point?
Do we need another industrial plant or plactics company there? Would a high end yacht manufacturer be so hard to obtain? Maybe a world class marina? Use the bay for positive growth? Just a thought

[Rnrboy]

If you believe nobel-prize winning economists know what they're talking about on these issues, then your post is misbegotten.

Paul Krugman would look at Rhode Island and laugh at your attempt to paint it as a "Democratic" problem. The problem is a direct result of stagnantly conservative fiscal policies. We perpetually cut taxes for the rich, and try to slash our way out of crises.

Once we cut taxes for the middle class, restore services, and invest in infrastructure; only then will we begin to work our way out of this. Of course, our state Legislature (AND Governor) have both put us in a fiscal chokehold. At the very time we should be the least afraid of deficit spending, we are - instead, reducing fiscal stimuli. Be very thankful w have an overwhelmingly Democratic government coming into Washington this month. We'll need the Federal bailout so that our DINOs in the legislature, and our Republican Governor can frame it as if they began to solve our problems by 2010.

Lastly, you are aware that Rhode Island has inherent disadvantages economically speaking, right? We have one of the densest populations in the country, in a small geographic area; and we have lost our manufacturing base. Despite this, we are not alone. Virtually the entire country is suffering right now. And if you look at statistics other than unemployment, there are actually other states worse off than us. (Florida, CA, and Nevada come to mind.) Your perception of RI being extraordinarily corrupt is also something I have found very peculiar to this area. In survey after survey, RI's corruption is weighed as merely intermediate. States like Texas, Alabama, and Utah all come out consistently ahead in their levels of corruption. But because this is such a small state, and because there has been some outrageous crime here in the past, many locals greatly exaggerate the level of corruption here in Rhode Island. I'm originally from FL, and I can tell ya, despite whatever corruption may still exist in Rhody - try doubling it and you might be approaching about half that level in FL.

[Rnrboy]

P.S. I just rated your most recent post. I actually entirely agreed with that one!

[Rhodeislander]

Originally Posted by Rnrboy

If you believe nobel-prize winning economists know what they're talking about on these issues, then your post is misbegotten.

Paul Krugman would look at Rhode Island and laugh at your attempt to paint it as a "Democratic" problem. The problem is a direct result of stagnantly conservative fiscal policies. We perpetually cut taxes for the rich, and try to slash our way out of crises.

Once we cut taxes for the middle class, restore services, and invest in infrastructure; only then will we begin to work our way out of this. Of course, our state Legislature (AND Governor) have both put us in a fiscal chokehold. At the very time we should be the least afraid of deficit spending, we are - instead, reducing fiscal stimuli. Be very thankful w have an overwhelmingly Democratic government coming into Washington this month. We'll need the Federal bailout so that our DINOs in the legislature, and our Republican Governor can frame it as if they began to solve our problems by 2010.

Lastly, you are aware that Rhode Island has inherent disadvantages economically speaking, right? We have one of the densest populations in the country, in a small geographic area; and we have lost our manufacturing base. Despite this, we are not alone. Virtually the entire country is suffering right now. And if you look at statistics other than unemployment, there are actually other states worse off than us. (Florida, CA, and Nevada come to mind.) Your perception of RI being extraordinarily corrupt is also something I have found very peculiar to this area. In survey after survey, RI's corruption is weighed as merely intermediate. States like Texas, Alabama, and Utah all come out consistently ahead in their levels of corruption. But because this is such a small state, and because there has been some outrageous crime here in the past, many locals greatly exaggerate the level of corruption here in Rhode Island. I'm originally from FL, and I can tell ya, despite whatever corruption may still exist in Rhody - try doubling it and you might be approaching about half that level in FL.

Maybe you need to be here longer to get the picture. Cianci, DiPrete, Mollicone ring a bell? Corrupt? Yes at every level, deeper than you may have knowledge of. I'm ex law enforcement, have lived here all my life. I dont have enough space here to list all the internal corruption that has been investigated. The public may see one tenth of what is going on at the time.When states and towns over pay for road projects every year, its takes its toll. Pensions and the union stranglehold have crushed our economy. 10% of the population, as I stated before, are employed by the state or local government.Please tell me how you award winning economist thinks that is sustainable?

Ever wonder why our roads are so horrible? New Hampshire however has the smoothest roads in the Northeast. Do they have more tax revenue? Maybe they choose reputable contractors for the job.

Please explain why we need so many cities and towns, and its cost of govenment, for 1 million people?

Dense population?
Dallas Texas 343 sq miles approx 1 million people
RI is 1214 sq miles and again 1 million people
Dallas does not need 39 police and fire chiefs, 39 school districts and administrators.
Please expalin this to me, I'm open minded.

[Rhodeislander]

Originally Posted by Rnrboy

P.S. I just rated your most recent post. I actually entirely agreed with that one!

See we are not that far apart.

[Rnrboy]

I've been here 5 years and deem it sufficient to judge the policies here. (I've been monitoring heavily, and in some cases close at hand let's say.)

However, I never claimed that Rhode Island didn't have a problem with corruption. What I said is that we are intermediately corrupt. As opposed to as corrosively as we are sometimes framed by conservative thinkers, shall we say.

As for NH being some kind of libertarian paradise that all Rhode Island conservatives (which I can only take you for given your most recent posts) claim it is...well, that's hogwash. I simply don't have more time right now to debate the minute details involved here, but generally speaking a pretty distinctive characteristic of conservative thinking is to whine about the conditions in one's own state, and blame it on local Govt.

You will find entire conservative blogs dedicated to this very point in every where from New Hampshire to solid red Utah. That's just a fact. I suppose what I'm getting at, is many natives always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. I've lived all over, and I assure you it is not. In fact, Rhode Island; despite its current troubles, has far more potential than most of the US.

What you and I agree on, is that this potential is not being properly utilized. And we both agree that THAT, is certainly the fault of our govt. Where we almost certainly differ, for the most part, is on how to fix it. But make no mistake, our predicament is not unprecedented, nor exclusive; rather it is all too typical.

[Hollytree]

Problem is that establishing county government in Rhode Island would require changing our state constitution which supports home rule by cities and towns- all 39 of 'em.

Will our legislators vote themselves out of office? Not likely.

The people would have to rise up and demand it. Perhaps we need another Dorr War. After all, RI'ders haven't overthrown the govt since 1842. Where's that cannon?

[Rhodeislander]

Originally Posted by Hollytree

Problem is that establishing county government in Rhode Island would require changing our state constitution which supports home rule by cities and towns- all 39 of 'em.

Will our legislators vote themselves out of office? Not likely.

The people would have to rise up and demand it. Perhaps we need another Dorr War. After all, RI'ders haven't overthrown the govt since 1842. Where's that cannon?

Maybe simply a consolidation of some services? Governments stay, but services are centrally controlled. Each county has a police and fire cheif, that sort of thing.