Will Richmond finally get a subway system? (Norfolk: taxes, bus)

[bluevelo]

But we're NOT stuck in traffic as a nation - outside of a few of the largest urban centers.

I grew up in Iowa. I've lived in SD,MN,OH,IN,MI,VA (NoVA, Fredericksburg and Richmond), MS and now California. Sacramento is a metro of 2+ million and our rush hour isn't that bad.

So many of the people of this country need to venture more than 15 miles from the coastal city they live in to find out that MOST of the US is empty space and there's no need to pack people in NYC-like cores to "save the Earth". We have plenty of cities that need JOBS for people to move back into the ample supply of housing that's in many Rust Belt locations, for example.

We have an issue in this country with an underclass we've thrown trillions at in the 'war' on poverty and the policy has been a dismal failure. We've spent billions on revitalizing downtowns and that policy has been a failure.

I've got a MA in planning and have spent 22+ years in the transportation planning profession. The transportation "crisis" is like WMD, global warming and deficits. These are hyped crises for the purposes of advancing a specific political agenda.

Planning in and of itself is not "socialism" but the goals of the "sustainability and livability" crowds *are* socialistic, in that they want to force a change in the lifestyle because they hate the car, they hate suburbs, etc. The tech for hybrids is *already* here. The internal combustion engine still can undergo several generations of improvements to make it ever more efficient.

I do not WANT to live next to someone because the gov't has decreed that I *have* to embrace diversity, putting up with gangbanger culture and having 50 to 60 to 70 percent of my income taxed away to pay for people that refuse to work and instead breed, deal drugs and commit crime. The gov't instead needs to create a climate where people WANT to live together in 'diversity'.

[RVA-Jsn20]

Originally Posted by bluevelo

I do not WANT to live next to someone because the gov't has decreed that I *have* to embrace diversity, putting up with gangbanger culture and having 50 to 60 to 70 percent of my income taxed away to pay for people that refuse to work and instead breed, deal drugs and commit crime. The gov't instead needs to create a climate where people WANT to live together in 'diversity'.

How are they supposed to do that? I already do/want to live with people of different ethnicities and backgrounds. And actually 60% of your income taxes go to the military, not helping the poor.

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rySpending.jpg

[roanoker 4]

bluevelo, if you don't embrace diversity, maybe you shouldn't be living in a large metro area. You must be there due to your work as well as many disadvantaged people who move to find work in cities. If there are no opportunities then people will resort to doing anything just to survive. Just because one is poor doesn't mean they don't want the same things out of life as anyone else. My feeling is that if they don't get it then they will take it away from those who do. The effort by the government to spend money in cities was a response to the social unrest of the 1960s and the civil rights movement. I hope those days don't come back! Just in my city of Roanoke I have seen government programs that have worked in the downtown area such as tax credits for businesses to expand and flood control projects. Of course every city is different. I have also noticed that for a city to be successful the local businesses, wealthy, etc must jump in and invest $$.
The wealthy won't invest in the city if ALL of the people detest it. I think that has been the case for Richmond City over the years, not Roanoke. By having light rail coming in from the suburbs of Richmond to downtown, along with streetcars would bring more affluent into downtown without the problem of parking, safety, plus business and more downtown living would follow. I think that would be money well spent. But I guess I am a dreamer and we will probably see high speed rail in Iraq before attention is paid to this country!

[sls76]

Originally Posted by RVA-Jsn20

How are they supposed to do that? I already do/want to live with people of different ethnicities and backgrounds. And actually 60% of your income taxes go to the military, not helping the poor.

The Federal Pie Chart

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rySpending.jpg

Actually, 60% of my taxes (and I do pay them unlike about 50% of this country) don't go to the military. That's a fake figure from an anti-military group. The real number is closer to 20-30% although who knows what the real figure will be going forward given the POTUS has increased spending 20% (while tax revenues plummeted) mainly on social programs and union payoffs. BTW, do you have a problem with what the military's doing in Haiti?

[RVA-Jsn20]

Originally Posted by sls76

Actually, 60% of my taxes (and I do pay them unlike about 50% of this country) don't go to the military. That's a fake figure from an anti-military group. The real number is closer to 20-30% although who knows what the real figure will be going forward given the POTUS has increased spending 20% (while tax revenues plummeted) mainly on social programs and union payoffs. BTW, do you have a problem with what the military's doing in Haiti?

I don't have a problem with the military period lol


edit: Oh except for the don't ask don't tell policy, which should be repealed soon

[540_804]

Originally Posted by bluevelo

We've spent billions on revitalizing downtowns and that policy has been a failure.

What makes you say that?

I would say that in most major cities (and non-major alike), the revitalization of the downtown cores have been appreciable in the last 5-10 years. I really can't think of any downtown that hasn't benefited, though obviously some have more than others (granted my opinion is based on empirical rather than statistical measures).

[whynot?]

Originally Posted by sls76

Actually, 60% of my taxes (and I do pay them unlike about 50% of this country) don't go to the military. That's a fake figure from an anti-military group. The real number is closer to 20-30 . . . .

C'mon 50% don't pay taxes? Don't you think it's closer to 30%? (Unless you include dependent children?) Please cite authoritative research from a reputable non-"anti-TAX group."

But more to the OP's point, a real problem now -- as opposed to 10 or 15 years ago -- for downtown Richmond is the loss of corporate headquarters and other major employers from the corridor, resulting in huge commercial/office/retail vacancies that do not (currently) support a large central transit hub.

Traditional (underground) subway seems to make no sense because of the construction costs. Light rail makes limited sense because there's really not a substantial traffic problem here (v. other metro areas). IMHO, it's a transportation/marketing problem -- de-stigmatizing mass transit, optimizing bus service on existing corridors, etc. -- more than a traffic problem we have to deal with.

Trains (subway or light rail) only make sense where there's a sufficient volume of riders to and from specific landmark stops. That mass of customers has fled the downtown area in recent years, and become so diffuse in the larger metro Richmond area that buses -- which can stop anywhere -- handle the traffic much more efficiently on existing infrastructure.

[sls76]

Originally Posted by whynot?

C'mon 50% don't pay taxes? Don't you think it's closer to 30%? (Unless you include dependent children?) Please cite authoritative research from a reputable non-"anti-TAX group."

Do you consider CBS news an anti-tax group?

The Income Tax System is Broken - CBS News

The number get bigger every year for obvious reasons. It's a pretty well known number and it's fairly important to understand, especially for people who think the rich are getting a "free ride". It also puts in perspective how many Americans have no skin in the game.

ETA: In no way do I consider CBS News reputable, but it's an okay article.

[whynot?]

Touché. I supposed it depends upon whose numbers you're reading. I had seen this more recent (12/09/09) article from the Tax Foundation, that says, "Almost a third of all tax returns, 32.6 percent of 143 million federal tax returns filed, were nonpaying in 2007, the most recent year for which IRS data is final."

(Link: The Tax Foundation - Surge of “Nonpayers” Will Be Part of Bush Tax Legacy )

So I guess CBS/Tax Policy Center is working with data to project FY2008 results. Either way, we're getting off the topic of the area's transportation problems.

[vman650]

I know of nobody with a crystal ball clear enough to see the future. The cost of building a subterranean railroad system seems to be astronomically high. The whole philosophy of individuality as defined by the automobile would have to change radically for this to even be considered. Richmond would have to grow substantially and the cost of owning a personal vehicle would have to climb tremendously for this to be possible. I do however see high speed trains connecting the major east coast cities, with Richmond being in the mix. Recent congestion at airports due to increased traffic and terrorism makes this more and more logical. All we need now is the money and political parties who can finally agree with each other.