UK based Family looking to emigrate to USA (Rochester) (New York: low income, real estate) - (NY) - City-Data Forum

talk2night · 08-07-2007, 03:26 PM

Good morning, afternoon or evening (delete as appropriate for your time zone) !!

I’m just after some information regarding numerous subjects as my family and I are hoping to one day live in either USA or Canada. I understand some subjects within this post aren’t relevant to this forum/yourself but if anyone can give me any information that may be of assistance to me that would be fantastic.

Firstly let me paint you ‘my picture’. I am 28 years of age and live in Liverpool, England. I have a 25 year old Wife and we have an 18 month old daughter and are expecting our 2nd child in November. We are both currently in non-professional (but reasonably well paid) jobs and owned our own house for 4 years. I have just completed my first year of a 5 year part-time Business Studies degree at a local University. The degree will give me a BSc with honours upon completion and I am planning to then become a teacher (an ambition I’ve always had) by taking either a PGCE or GTP (both 1 year routes) into teaching in the UK. My wife is planning to take some qualifications in beauty therapy over the next couple of years also.

Upon completion of my degree (and possibly teacher training) which should be around 2012/13 we are hoping to emigrate to either USA or Canada. I have family (none of it direct) in Rochester, New York and have spent a lot of time there as a youngster. I absolutely love it there so at the moment this is high up on our list of possible destinations but I understand it can be difficult to get into the USA legally and therefore we are looking into Canada also. So here are my questions/queries that I ask for some help regarding please:

1) Teaching in the USA.
One of the main questions I have is whether a UK teaching qualification is valid and any use in the USA? Would I be better completing my degree then looking to do a teaching qualification in the USA? (If this is my only option any links or information would be great). Or would I be better doing as I am currently planning, by completing my Newly Qualified Teacher year here in the UK then looking for jobs/sponsorships in a chosen area of USA.

2) Teaching Salary
Anyone links to what teachers salaries are in the USA or Canada so I can asses how comparable they are to the UK?

3) House Prices
From our initial investigation the house prices in upstate New York are very low compared to the UK! Is this a national trend in the USA? We currently have a terraced 3 bedroom, medium sized house in one of the better suburbs of Liverpool and it’s valued at around £180,000 ($360,000). Of this we would hopefully have around £70,000 ($140,000) profit by the time we came to move and would be able to use probably at least 50% of this as a deposit on a house. Does anyone have any information, links or guides to the process of house buying in the USA?

Hopefully I have painted a decent enough picture for some people to give me some advice on our options. We a looking to do all the work ourselves (i.e. planning to visit Rochester in 2010 and start looking into houses, schools etc) so we don’t really want to go through an agency who charge us for the pleasure. Any advice or information people can give me at this early stage would be greatly appreciated. I also understand it is very difficult to gain legal entry into the USA so Canada would be another possibility – so If anyone has any answers to the above but in relation to Canada that would also be fantastic.

Thanking you greatly in advance,

Andy

Liverpool, England.

just_sayin' · 08-07-2007, 03:41 PM

Rochester, and Upstate NY in general....has MUCH more afforable homes than the rest of the country...so no, homeprices in the area do not reflect national averages. Taxes in upstate NY are higher than average for the US...but I'd imagine they are probably much lower than anywhere in Europe. With $360,000 american currency....you could have a brand new, HUGE house, with at least 4 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, on half an acre of land in most Rochester suburbs....not to mention a full basement. Homerpices will almost certianly be higher throughout the US, including Rochester, by 2013, but it will still be very affordable, I don't see a "bubble" forming like the ones that did in Long Island, Calfornia, and Florida.

GypsySoul22 · 08-09-2007, 01:04 PM

If you want to find out teacher's salaries or you have questions about teaching in NYS (New York State) contact the Department of Education in Albany. (which is the capital of NY). Each state handles its own certification/and had individual requirements. You could email them in Albany and they will hopefully answer you.
Welcome to the New York State Education Department

You can also check out the local newspaper in the area you want to move to and get an idea of salaries and needs.

Male teachers always seem to be in need all over, especially in primary where they are quite unique.

Good luck in fulfilling your dreams. We need more Brits here (I'm married to one!).

karen824 · 08-09-2007, 09:03 PM

Andy,
I don't think I can answer most of your questions

but I do know that if you are teaching in the areas of math or science you may have a better chance of finding employment in the U.S.--those subjects seem to be in higher demand than, say, English or history. But you didn't mention what level of school you'd be interested in teaching--the requirements would differ depending on whether you're talking about younger vs. older children (elementary school vs. middle school vs. high school--not sure how that translates to the English system?)
I think if you have a second language, especially Spanish, it might also help you find teaching work.
But as others have said, your first step should be to figure out whether your degree would allow you to work in this country as a teacher or what additional coursework you'd have to complete to meet the requirements. One thing you might consider is looking into teaching at a private school. (I think that means the opposite of what it does in England--I mean a school where the students have to pay tuition.) The private schools do have to meet state standards but I think they have more leeway in whom they can hire.

The Rochester city schools are unfortunately not very good. I would definitely suggest that you look at some of the suburban areas, many of which have excellent school systems for your kids, and aren't too far from the city of Rochester (in case you find employment within the city school system.) Just off the top of my head, Brighton, Pittsford, Penfield, Perinton, all have excellent reputations. There are many others.

Good luck!

Karen

shibainu · 08-10-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by talk2night

1) Teaching in the USA.
One of the main questions I have is whether a UK teaching qualification is valid and any use in the USA? Would I be better completing my degree then looking to do a teaching qualification in the USA? (If this is my only option any links or information would be great). Or would I be better doing as I am currently planning, by completing my Newly Qualified Teacher year here in the UK then looking for jobs/sponsorships in a chosen area of USA.

2) Teaching Salary
Anyone links to what teachers salaries are in the USA or Canada so I can asses how comparable they are to the UK?

3) House Prices
From our initial investigation the house prices in upstate New York are very low compared to the UK! Is this a national trend in the USA? We currently have a terraced 3 bedroom, medium sized house in one of the better suburbs of Liverpool and it’s valued at around £180,000 ($360,000). Of this we would hopefully have around £70,000 ($140,000) profit by the time we came to move and would be able to use probably at least 50% of this as a deposit on a house. Does anyone have any information, links or guides to the process of house buying in the USA?

Hopefully I have painted a decent enough picture for some people to give me some advice on our options. We a looking to do all the work ourselves (i.e. planning to visit Rochester in 2010 and start looking into houses, schools etc) so we don’t really want to go through an agency who charge us for the pleasure. Any advice or information people can give me at this early stage would be greatly appreciated. I also understand it is very difficult to gain legal entry into the USA so Canada would be another possibility – so If anyone has any answers to the above but in relation to Canada that would also be fantastic.

Thanking you greatly in advance,

Andy

Liverpool, England.

Andy,

I have found some data for you on teachers Salaries and Job outlook.
This from the NYS DOL(department of labor)
Secondary School Teachers in the finger lakes(rochester area) have a Very Favorable outlook. The average salary is $52,760 and average job opening a year is 260 for 2004 -2014. The required training is a Bachelor's degree.

Job title outlook Salary openings degree
Spec. Ed Teachers, Middle Very Favorable $50,020 40 Bachelor's
Spec. Ed Teachers, Pre, K- 6 Very Favorable $49,040 70 Bachelor's
Spec. Ed Teachers, Secondary Very Favorable $49,450 60 Bachelor's
Teachers Very Favorable $25,510 60 Bachelor's

New York State Department of Labor - apps

BLS
Rochester, NY - May 2006 OES Metropolitan Area Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates
Rochester MSA
Preschool Teachers, Except Special Education
employment median anually income
1,370 $22,020

Kindergarten Teachers, Except Special Education
employment mean anually
540 $54,000

Elementary School Teachers, Except Special Education
employment mean anually
5,370 $53,320

Middle School Teachers, Except Special and Vocational Education
employment mean anually
2,490 $59,420

Vocational Education Teachers, Middle School
employment mean anually
70 $51,420

Secondary School Teachers, Except Special and Vocational Education
employment mean anually
5,300 $61,000

25-2032 Vocational Education Teachers, Secondary School
employment mean anually
530 $76,520

25-2041 Special Education Teachers, Preschool, Kindergarten, and Elementary School
employment mean anually
1,550 $55,380

25-2042 Special Education Teachers, Middle School
employment mean anually
620 $52,860

Special Education Teachers, Secondary School
employment mean anually
1,260 $55,760

Here are some websites that may help you about more info on USA teaching jobs.

Teachers-preschool, kindergarten, elementary, middle, and secondary
Rochester Teachers Association
http://www.nysut.org/index.html
How to become a teacher - page one
Careers in Teaching
GreatSchools.net

Here is a forum in city/data that talks about the lack of teaching jobs in upstate nys.
Lack of upstate NY jobs in education

Here is forum about Brain Drain in Upstate NY.
New York's Young People Fleeing the State

Website about how to buy a house in america
homebuying.about.com/od/howtobuyahome

I hope this helps a bit I will look for other links.

Now on the rochester topic:

Why do you want to move to Rochester besides some distant family being part of the reason?
Why I ask is because Rochester MSA is going through a tough time. Most of the people that post on here are pro-Rochester. I am more analytical so I look at all the facts and then make a decision about a place.
My outlook of Rochester was probably the same as most people. I grew up in Rochester from 1978-1998 and moved away for college. I came back to Rochester in 2004 because I missed the place and my family that lived here. Coming back to Rochester was an eye opener for me and I enjoyed the difficult experiences. I will be moving at the end of the year out of New York State like so many of us in the past 5-6 years. Our age group (I am 28) is experiencing a very difficult time in nys with lack of jobs. My Friends in Rochester that have been looking for a teaching job finally got a sub job this year after 3 years of looking. They also went to the top school in college for education in ny. I have other friends that have Master degree in other Business professions that just graduated from Rit (local college) and have been looking for a year for job and now they will be temping. Yesterday a relative of mine went to the unemployment office to find a job and the person that work their told them that are no jobs currently in Rochester try next week. Now I know that people will say that it is just my experience and there are tons of jobs but they are lying because I can back everything up I say by data. So if you want the truth about upstate and Rochester I will give you the facts and let you make up your mind. I just want you to hear the whole story not my opinion.

Now about Rochester:
i'minformed posted
"Rochester and Upstate NY in general....has MUCH more affordable homes than the rest of the country...so no, home prices in the area do not reflect national averages. Taxes in upstate NY are higher than average for the US...but I'd imagine they are probably much lower than anywhere in Europe. With $360,000 American currency....you could have a brand new, HUGE house, with at least 4 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, on half an acre of land in most Rochester suburbs....not to mention a full basement. Homerpices will almost certainly be higher throughout the US, including Rochester, by 2013, but it will still be very affordable, I don't see a "bubble" forming like the ones that did in Long Island, California, and Florida."

Rochester is affordable because the population and economy are on a decline. Also when you only make 27k-45k year and average home price at 115k can still be expensive. Also the home values in the past 30 years have only appreciated about 3-6% which is horrible compared to other markets. So do not expect your home value to increase. Tax rates are about 30-33 dollars per $1,000. Monroe County is in the top 5 for highest property tax in America. So you will see high taxes on low income and low housing prices. i'minformed is wrong about Rochester not experience the bubble. We experienced a slight increase for about 2 years. But most of the experience has had a negative effect. Foreclosure rates in Rochester are just as high as the national average. Values of people’s property are declining. Population in Rochester MSA is also on a decline. So people will tell you that this is because people are moving to other counties near by Rochester but that is not the case. All of upstate Ny population is on a decline. Rochester job market is the 5th worst in the Nation. Rochester lost about 50,000 jobs since 2001. After a few years of negative job growth Rochester grew about 12,000 jobs in the past year. Rochester is giving big tax break to keep almost every major and mid-size companies to stay in Rochester. In the past couple of years they have closed 3 schools in Rochester and moved them in to others schools. But people will tell you that that is the city schools not the suburbs. I am saying this because Rochester school district and Greece are the largest employers of teachers in the area. There are good schools in Rochester area but your chances of being employed are slim.

Top 5 wealthiest zipcodes in rochester by rbj and city data:

14506
Zip code population (2000): 1,289
Estimated population in 2005: 1,235
median house/condo value in 2003 =293,636
Estimated median house/condo value in 2005: $215,392
income 2003=103k
income 2005=80,113k

14534
Zip code population (2000): 30,270
Estimated population in 2005: 29,020
median house/condo value in 230k
Estimated median house/condo value in 2005: $212,350
income 2003=97,915
Estimated median household income in 2005: $88,789

14472
Zip code population (2000): 8,140
Estimated population in 2005: 7,804
median house/condo value in 2003=237k
Estimated median house/condo value in 2005: $200,911
income 2003=80k
Estimated median household income in 2005: $73,256

14450
Zip code population (2000): 40,748
Estimated population in 2005: 39,066
median house/condo value in 2003=171k
Estimated median house/condo value in 2005: $170,853
income 2003=77k
Estimated median household income in 2005: $68,771

14526
Zip code population (2000): 19,789
Estimated population in 2005: 18,972
median house/condo value in 182k
Estimated median house/condo value in 2005: $159,414
income 2003 =74k
Estimated median household income in 2005: $68,261

Now as you can see these are the 5 top wealthies zipcodes by rochester business journals data. One common thing between them all is that population, house income, and property values declined. Some of the area's home prices and income decline by a lot.I am giving you this information to make your decision process more well rounded. Also this data will be comparable for most of upstates cities.
well good luck.

garmin239 · 08-10-2007, 11:20 AM

Where do you keep getting this information from?
There have been countless articles in the past year or so that state that the median home prices have risen in the area. Home prices aren't dropping and they have appreciated more than 6% over the past decade. My parents house in webster is worth over twice what it was when they bought it. I bought my house in Irondequoit only 3 years ago and has appreciated around 3%. And thats in one of the "crappy" suburbs.
There have also been articles on the state of the economy. Job growth has outpaced job loss recently. Usually in a declining economy, job loss outpaces job growth.
Your personal experiences with job seekers are questionable too. It took your friend 3 years to find a sub position? I find that very hard to believe. I am around the same age as you, a good amount of my friends have teaching degrees, received their bachelors and masters in the 03-06 time frame. Most have found jobs. The few that havent found jobs got their degrees from out of the area but were able to find subbing positions within a month of being on the sub list . All were able to find long term sub positions after a couple months of subbing.
Many RIT people work co-ops while attending school and many get offered full time positions in the area.
You seem to think you know everything about the area but you seem to forget to mention the news articles that talk about some of the high tech companies in the area that need more employees. Go to the harris corporation website and you will see that there are several openings in the Rochester area.
You speak like the area is going through a huge decline in population. The area declined less than 1% in population. Wow. Big deal. Pittsford is in one of the wealthiest zip codes and has gained population. I see you left out some of the areas that have gained population. Webster? Penfield? Victor? Not so many people are leaving as they are just shifting around the MSA area.
We are not lying when we say there are jobs, you are just providing sketchy biased "numbers" to promote your negative view. You don't provide the whole picture.
The stats you posted in that other thread make no sense and contradict eachother as do the stats in this thread.

just_sayin' · 08-10-2007, 02:00 PM

Garmin....the kid doesn't know what he's talking about....all of us "pro-rochester" people on here are just "lying" in his eyes....there's nothing good going on in the area and nothing will ever improve as far as he's concerned. Trust me it irritates me to see that much ignorance and arrogance too, but just take comfort in knowing he's not very intelligent (remember $35k a year being poverty?)

shibainu · 08-11-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garmin239

Where do you keep getting this information from?
There have been countless articles in the past year or so that state that the median home prices have risen in the area. Home prices aren't dropping and they have appreciated more than 6% over the past decade. My parents house in webster is worth over twice what it was when they bought it. I bought my house in Irondequoit only 3 years ago and has appreciated around 3%. And thats in one of the "crappy" suburbs.
There have also been articles on the state of the economy. Job growth has outpaced job loss recently. Usually in a declining economy, job loss outpaces job growth.
Your personal experiences with job seekers are questionable too. It took your friend 3 years to find a sub position? I find that very hard to believe. I am around the same age as you, a good amount of my friends have teaching degrees, received their bachelors and masters in the 03-06 time frame. Most have found jobs. The few that havent found jobs got their degrees from out of the area but were able to find subbing positions within a month of being on the sub list . All were able to find long term sub positions after a couple months of subbing.
Many RIT people work co-ops while attending school and many get offered full time positions in the area.
You seem to think you know everything about the area but you seem to forget to mention the news articles that talk about some of the high tech companies in the area that need more employees. Go to the harris corporation website and you will see that there are several openings in the Rochester area.
You speak like the area is going through a huge decline in population. The area declined less than 1% in population. Wow. Big deal. Pittsford is in one of the wealthiest zip codes and has gained population. I see you left out some of the areas that have gained population. Webster? Penfield? Victor? Not so many people are leaving as they are just shifting around the MSA area.
We are not lying when we say there are jobs, you are just providing sketchy biased "numbers" to promote your negative view. You don't provide the whole picture.
The stats you posted in that other thread make no sense and contradict eachother as do the stats in this thread.

My data is found on numerous business journals/census/city data/real estate boards. This is not my opinion it is the data I have found. Also the 5 wealthiest zip codes comes from the A list of RBJ not from me. I can site everything I talked about but what would it do for you. We both have different opinions on this topic. I was stating certain events in my life experience. In no way have I said they are common that is why I used the data. The problems I see with making comments on these topics are no one that has challenged my information with a good counter argument. The people respond with attacking me personally or it doesn't make senses or it is not what I see. I really don't want to know what you see. I want the evidence that backs up your claim. I am not afraid of criticism or attacks. But to say that I am wrong about an issue and you cannot counter my argument with facts then how can I believe you. This website is called city-data so I thought we would discuss issues base on data. I guess I was wrong opinions are stronger than Facts.

Lastly, what contradict each other? So I can clarify.

shibainu · 08-11-2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i'minformed

Garmin....the kid doesn't know what he's talking about....all of us "pro-rochester" people on here are just "lying" in his eyes....there's nothing good going on in the area and nothing will ever improve as far as he's concerned. Trust me it irritates me to see that much ignorance and arrogance too, but just take comfort in knowing he's not very intelligent (remember $35k a year being poverty?)

Just because You may have a good experence and I may have a bad one does not mean that we should not talk about the true issues and cover them up.You seem to try to discredit everything I say buy not talking about the issue. I can understand that somethings may not make sense to you but I am not responding to you I am responding to the first post.

My response to the poverty issue: I understand that the government describes poverty for most of America at about 17k to 20k depending on certain family sizes. So in the other post my claim was that African American population in Upstate cities was 18-27k. So how close is that to poverty. There were also stats done by a state think tank stating that upstate total population is near or at poverty levels. You have to realize that the government poverty levels are a way to classify certain benefit programs. So if they raise the bar on those levels it would make more Americans in poverty, which would look bad and second more people could be eligible for some kind of aid. In my opinion poverty is not just stuck to a low-income level because it is depending on cost of living. Upstate cost of living is not as expensive as the rest of the country but when you compare cost of living to income of the upstate area you will see that it is not as affordable to the people living there.

garmin239 · 08-11-2007, 04:11 PM

If you provided the whole picture in your "data" you may have a point, but you are selectively posting certain numbers to make the area look bad. For example you attempt to make it look like everybody is leaving the area by posting population numbers from zip codes. The main towns in some of these zip codes have actually gained population and you completely left out the zip codes/towns that had population gains.
Your "facts" arent being challenged because they read like a michael moore or ann coulter argument by selectively using numbers. I could chop up a bunch of numbers to make Camden look like a paradise.
As for you contradicting yourself, in another thread you stated that a large number of black persons living in Irondequot were in poverty but many somehow managed to be homeowners. This is impossible.