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Old 01-27-2008, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
897 posts, read 1,599,718 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbertol2 View Post
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience in Rochester. I hope you're happy in your new home, wherever it may be. Perhaps you intentionally left it out for fear of the onslaught of Rochestarians that may have followed and attacked you because of your libelous post.
Doesnt it say on the top right corner that he is from SC.
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Old 01-27-2008, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Rochester, NY
75 posts, read 210,303 times
Reputation: 54
Haha, why yes it does! I didn't see that. Guess it kinda ruins the post, huh.
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Old 01-27-2008, 05:57 PM
 
5,265 posts, read 10,124,593 times
Reputation: 4001
not necessarily...it was still funny.
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Blythewood, SC
20 posts, read 73,137 times
Reputation: 19
Actually, I am being followed, as I've met several recently relocated natives Upstate since I arrived in Sept. We have several Rochester natives at work, alone. Nobody around here is chomping at the bit to move to Rochester. The brain drain continues, unabated...

No fear of Rochester bullies, here. I work with, and live adjacent to, civilized people of various backgrounds.
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:16 PM
 
3,235 posts, read 4,926,595 times
Reputation: 2528
brain drain? The number of college educated people has remained pretty flat. I'm still waiting for you to tell us where you dealt with all of those people you were talking about in your sweeping generalizations as you didn't address any of the points brought up in response to your little rant.
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Old 02-05-2008, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Blythewood, SC
20 posts, read 73,137 times
Reputation: 19
garmin239, wrote:

>"brain drain? The number of college educated people has remained pretty flat. I'm still waiting for you to tell us where you dealt with all of those people you were talking about in your sweeping generalizations as you didn't address any of the points brought up in response to your little rant. "<

I don't know where you've been living these past, I don't know, 20 years, but the brain drain has been highlighted by the local media, as well as local/regional think tanks. The Public Policy Institute in Albany has been harping on this issue, for years. Not one friend of mine from high school, nor any friends I've met after high school but were educated in Upstate, stayed there. Not one. Many of their parents have left, too, even before retirement, as they don't want to be associated with permanent decline, misery, crushing taxes, possible layoffs, etc. Nor do any friends of mine from the South, or, for that matter, any Northeastern state, want anything to do with Rochester. I've received e-mails regarding my "rant", and all of them have affirmed my views of that wonderful town, Rochester, NY. One responder stated that out of an office of 6, 5 are leaving Rochester ASAP. I'd imagine the other one is either brainwashed or stuck.

As far as the numbers being "flat", define "flat". Does that mean they've hit rock bottom? Please explain. If it means the numbers are flat because of no net gain in the % of locals as college graduates, then that could be construed as a negative, as well. An area which is losing population (Rochester MSA), would most likely have a flattening out of the % of college graduates. Besides, I often wonder about the often contradictory news coming out of that town (especially in the D&C), when people are still leaving in droves. As recently as last year, the idiots you folks have for politicians, the local business community, and the media were harping on the "brain drain". Are you sure you live there?

Most folks I knew in my younger years went for technical degrees, and certifications on top of that. Some even went back for another BS, and a few others now hold MS degrees. None of them could find jobs right out of college, anywhere in Upstate, and they hold degrees from UB, RIT, Clarkson, Cornell, Syracuse, RPI, etc.

Pay rates have not increased much since the '90 recession, when adjusted for inflation. These stats are available from the state DOL, the U.S. DOL, etc. Overall employment in Rochester has increased .3% in the last year, but the long term trend is a decline of -3.3% since 2000. The numbers don't lie, people do. Rochester private sector jobs have gone down -4.3% since 2000, meaning, most of the gains have been in the public sector. It takes Rochester and the rest of Upstate not months, but years to recover from a recession. These meager job gains will be wiped out in the next recession, mark my word. Last I heard, that MSA had lost 15K or so, population.

Work in any organization, which is over 15 years old (95% of the companies around town), and you will find what I've written about. Luckily, many successful folks have left town, rather than deal with the horrible job market which exists there. They are perfectly happy, I'm sure, having found greater opportunities elsewhere, and better, happier, metro areas. Rochester used to be a mecca for entrepreneurs. Nowadays, that notion would be laughable.

Go on U-Haul's site, and do a spreadsheet for moving from Rochester, NY, to, I dunno, Columbia, SC. Then go the other way, Columbia to Rochester. For many years, probably since about 1986 or so, it has been 3+ times more expensive to rent a trailer, truck, etc., OUT of town, then it is to rent IN TO Rochester. The demand is so high for truck rentals, you'd have to reserve many days or sometimes even several weeks in advance.

I found this out way back in '96, the first time I moved away from that town. This time around, it was still 3X more expensive. $1800+ for an 18' truck? You gotta be kiddin' me! Take that to Economics 101 at Fisher.

Who's moving to Rochester? Some professionals (not enough to hold back the levee), third world refugees, welfarites of all stripes, etc. Crime? Rochester is the most violent city in NY, and your mayor has stated at a mayors' convention that if Strong trauma center wasn't the great facility it is, Rochester would have the highest murder rate in the free world. The crime is creeping into the tawny inner 'burbs. Remember the Irondequoit couple that was abducted, with their little baby? We ain't in Kansas, anymore, Toto. Major drug busts out in Greece, Gates, etc.? Churches vandalized, from the west side all the way out east to Bloomfield? Amico brothers? Numerous bomb threats at Penfield and Victor schools? Etc.?

Now, as I predicted, the ferry went under, Pae Tec Park is in trouble, professional sports teams aren't doing well, RenSquare is kaput, etc. My test for any one of these, when locals lament the demise of any project, or want to argue predictions, is as follows: Ask them if they will utilize it. My father is a classic example of this. Believes every word printed by the D&C, and wears his rose colored glasses well. The clueless crowd in that town will tell you, yes, the (enter name of latest trendy public works project) will work, etc. It's a joke. Any town which waits on the edge of their seats for a Cheesecake Factory, fast ferry, Pae Tec Park, RenSquare, has a serious problem. Oh, and the latest, demolition of Midtown/Pae Tec HQ. Yeah, more short term construction jobs, paid for by the taxpayers of NY and the U.S., with no long term appreciable gains in employment numbers. I'm sure that drama will drag on for far longer than the Hyatt Regency disaster (kinda like that hotel in Pyonyang, PRNK).

Yawn. Time to get to work...
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Old 02-05-2008, 01:55 PM
 
5,265 posts, read 10,124,593 times
Reputation: 4001
yawn....another complainer wrote an essay on why Rochester sucks.....when he doesn't even live here anymore! Whatever utopia you moved too can't be THAT great or exciting if you are spending so much time dissing Rochester on an internet forum.
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Old 02-05-2008, 02:13 PM
 
3,235 posts, read 4,926,595 times
Reputation: 2528
"the brain drain has been highlighted by the local media, as well as local/regional think tanks."


If you have actualy been paying attention to the media you would see that there is a brain gain problem. Not a brain drain problem. The number of college educated persons have not been leaving as the media had reported when they took the time to look at the numbers. The problem is getting large numbers of persons from outside the state. Big difference.



"Not one friend of mine from high school, nor any friends I've met after high school but were educated in Upstate, stayed there. Not one. Many of their parents have left, too, even before retirement, as they don't want to be associated with permanent decline, misery, crushing taxes, possible layoffs, etc. Nor do any friends of mine from the South, or, for that matter, any Northeastern state, want anything to do with Rochester."


I don't want to call you a liar, but this part seems to be BS. Either that or you know 5 people. I find it very very hard to believe that not one person stayed. Most people I went to school with stayed in the area after college but somehow not one person that you went to school with stayed? I find your southern comment funny. I travel to the south for work and meet some people from the area. Most say that they'd love to come back or have plans to come back.



"As far as the numbers being "flat", define "flat". Does that mean they've hit rock bottom? "


No they have not hit rock bottom. "Flat" means "flat" No significant gains or losses in population. There was no big population loss like you seem to think.




"Most folks I knew in my younger years went for technical degrees, and certifications on top of that. Some even went back for another BS, and a few others now hold MS degrees. None of them could find jobs right out of college"

I find this very hard to believe. I know many folks with technical degrees and most found jobs. I know of 3 people in my circle of friends that moved back this past fall because of jobs in that field.


"Overall employment in Rochester has increased .3% in the last year, but the long term trend is a decline of -3.3% since 2000. The numbers don't lie, people do."

Lie like you do in your other assertions? Why is the year 2000 used in your statement? Because it conviently fits into your negative attitude? I could easily tell you to look at the "long term" and use the mid 1990s and there would be a gain.


"Work in any organization, which is over 15 years old (95% of the companies around town), and you will find what I've written about."


I have and its not even close to what you are claiming.


"The demand is so high for truck rentals, you'd have to reserve many days or sometimes even several weeks in advance. "

No, when I moved from my apartment to my house I got a Uhall truck with three days notice.


"Who's moving to Rochester? Some professionals (not enough to hold back the levee), third world refugees, welfarites of all stripes, etc."


What do you have to support this?


"Rochester is the most violent city in NY, and your mayor has stated at a mayors' convention that if Strong trauma center wasn't the great facility it is, Rochester would have the highest murder rate in the free world."


Stats to support your claim? It is not 2005 anymore so the "murder capital" statement does not apply. When you only have around six cities with significant populations, the "murder capital" title is going to change hands frequently.


" Remember the Irondequoit couple that was abducted, with their little baby?We ain't in Kansas, anymore, Toto. Major drug busts out in Greece, Gates, etc.? Churches vandalized, from the west side all the way out east to Bloomfield? Amico brothers? Numerous bomb threats at Penfield and Victor schools? Etc.?"

Wow, one abduction in one suburb two years ago. The sky is falling. Oh no, drug busts every once in a while in suburbs. Oh lordy, vandals! These things happen in every suburb outside of every city. MS-13 has committed murders is suburban Virginia but I'm not going to make the statement that its a dangerous place. Once these crimes happen at a normal pace you may have room to talk.


The sports teams are not in trouble. You put down people for believing the D&C then you repeat the propaganda that the D&C prints. Paetec is adding several hundred jobs (not short term construction jobs) when they move downtown.

Once again you typed a long winded ignorant rant with nothing of value. You keep throwing sweeping generalizations into your posts but don't back anything up.
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:43 PM
 
5,265 posts, read 10,124,593 times
Reputation: 4001
I think they day that moparboy left, Rochester's "brain" score went up quite a bit.
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
897 posts, read 1,599,718 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by garmin239 View Post
"the brain drain has been highlighted by the local media, as well as local/regional think tanks."


If you have actualy been paying attention to the media you would see that there is a brain gain problem. Not a brain drain problem. The number of college educated persons have not been leaving as the media had reported when they took the time to look at the numbers. The problem is getting large numbers of persons from outside the state. Big difference.



"Not one friend of mine from high school, nor any friends I've met after high school but were educated in Upstate, stayed there. Not one. Many of their parents have left, too, even before retirement, as they don't want to be associated with permanent decline, misery, crushing taxes, possible layoffs, etc. Nor do any friends of mine from the South, or, for that matter, any Northeastern state, want anything to do with Rochester."


I don't want to call you a liar, but this part seems to be BS. Either that or you know 5 people. I find it very very hard to believe that not one person stayed. Most people I went to school with stayed in the area after college but somehow not one person that you went to school with stayed? I find your southern comment funny. I travel to the south for work and meet some people from the area. Most say that they'd love to come back or have plans to come back.



"As far as the numbers being "flat", define "flat". Does that mean they've hit rock bottom? "


No they have not hit rock bottom. "Flat" means "flat" No significant gains or losses in population. There was no big population loss like you seem to think.




"Most folks I knew in my younger years went for technical degrees, and certifications on top of that. Some even went back for another BS, and a few others now hold MS degrees. None of them could find jobs right out of college"

I find this very hard to believe. I know many folks with technical degrees and most found jobs. I know of 3 people in my circle of friends that moved back this past fall because of jobs in that field.


"Overall employment in Rochester has increased .3% in the last year, but the long term trend is a decline of -3.3% since 2000. The numbers don't lie, people do."

Lie like you do in your other assertions? Why is the year 2000 used in your statement? Because it conviently fits into your negative attitude? I could easily tell you to look at the "long term" and use the mid 1990s and there would be a gain.


"Work in any organization, which is over 15 years old (95% of the companies around town), and you will find what I've written about."


I have and its not even close to what you are claiming.


"The demand is so high for truck rentals, you'd have to reserve many days or sometimes even several weeks in advance. "

No, when I moved from my apartment to my house I got a Uhall truck with three days notice.


"Who's moving to Rochester? Some professionals (not enough to hold back the levee), third world refugees, welfarites of all stripes, etc."


What do you have to support this?


"Rochester is the most violent city in NY, and your mayor has stated at a mayors' convention that if Strong trauma center wasn't the great facility it is, Rochester would have the highest murder rate in the free world."


Stats to support your claim? It is not 2005 anymore so the "murder capital" statement does not apply. When you only have around six cities with significant populations, the "murder capital" title is going to change hands frequently.


" Remember the Irondequoit couple that was abducted, with their little baby?We ain't in Kansas, anymore, Toto. Major drug busts out in Greece, Gates, etc.? Churches vandalized, from the west side all the way out east to Bloomfield? Amico brothers? Numerous bomb threats at Penfield and Victor schools? Etc.?"

Wow, one abduction in one suburb two years ago. The sky is falling. Oh no, drug busts every once in a while in suburbs. Oh lordy, vandals! These things happen in every suburb outside of every city. MS-13 has committed murders is suburban Virginia but I'm not going to make the statement that its a dangerous place. Once these crimes happen at a normal pace you may have room to talk.


The sports teams are not in trouble. You put down people for believing the D&C then you repeat the propaganda that the D&C prints. Paetec is adding several hundred jobs (not short term construction jobs) when they move downtown.

Once again you typed a long winded ignorant rant with nothing of value. You keep throwing sweeping generalizations into your posts but don't back anything up.
The News today said that some one is trying to aquire the rhino's because they defaulted on 11 million dollars of loans. The Rochester Americans are looking to be bought because they are broke and attendance is low.
Don't forget that the local catholic schools are closing.
The avearge employment for the 1990's was 429k and so far the 2000's have an average 437k. So in 17 years time rochester created 7,750 jobs. That is an average of 455 jobs a year. But the most important number is in 2006 58.9% in monroe county are employed compared to in 2000 that number was 61.9%



Just in todays local news:
City to Assess Future of Blue Cross Arena - 13WHAM.com
Meeting Today On Rhinos Future - 13WHAM.com
Catholic Schools Registration Date Changed - 13WHAM.com
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