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While I had visited numerous times previously, it had been years since my most recent visit, and I was reminded of both the good and bad elements. On one hand, the food was excellent, the people were very nice, housing costs are very reasonable, and it's proximity to Lake Ontario and the Finger Lakes are both beautiful and convenient.
On the other hand, the property tax rate is among the highest in the nation, and there is a strange ambiguity to the neighborhoods which reminded me of Miami.
Now, when I say "strange ambiguity to the neighborhoods" what I mean is that there is no definitive border between the "less than desirable" areas, and the "cleaner and nicer areas". On one block one cannot escape the ominous feeling like you could get stabbed at any moment, and on the next block one thinks to oneself "this looks like a great place to raise a family". There seems to me no socioeconomic rhyme or reason to the configuration of the neighborhoods in places like Greece, Irondequoit, Chili, and Gates.
Thus, my first question is - is this impression of mine correct? Are the neighborhoods in fact just bumbling collections of all incomes, social statuses, and mixed demographics? I mean, how can one house have a firebird on blocks in their front lawn, and then two doors down have a beautiful home with an S500 in the driveway? Truth be told, I am not judging at all - I am simply genuinely curious. Certain sections of Miami are the only places I have ever seen that type of disparity right next to each other.
So there you have it - I would love to hear from anyone who could shed some light of the socio economic demographics of the neighborhoods, as well as any ballroom or tango restaurants.
There are virtually no areas in any of the suburbs where I feel like the idea of "could be stabbed any minute" is really an issue. There are some areas of southeast Greece, Gates, and southern Irondequoit that are a little rough around the edges and could use a facelift; but home-ownership rates in all of those towns is very high and the overwhelming majority of the population of those towns are middle-class families and retirees.
There are virtually no areas in any of the suburbs where I feel like the idea of "could be stabbed any minute" is really an issue. There are some areas of southeast Greece, Gates, and southern Irondequoit that are a little rough around the edges and could use a facelift; but home-ownership rates in all of those towns is very high and the overwhelming majority of the population of those towns are middle-class families and retirees.
Thank you for your feedback. I certainly was exaggerating a bit, but it was in an effort to emphasize my point. The diversity, socioeconomically that is, was just very rare. At one point, traveling north from Savoia Pastry Shoppe, I literally saw a house with bars on the windows, a Rottweiler on the porch, and an empty oil drum on the lawn right next to a house that was beautifully landscaped, immaculately taken care of, and aesthetically beautiful.
I have lived in Boston, Miami, Philadelphia, New Jersey, Vermont, Fort Lauderdale, Tampa, and traveled all over the globe for my work, and I have never seen something so dramatic as that landscape in Rochester. It was just foreign to me - but perhaps I am overreacting because I do not know Rochester well enough to understand it's unique personality.
Thank you for your feedback. I certainly was exaggerating a bit, but it was in an effort to emphasize my point. The diversity, socioeconomically that is, was just very rare. At one point, traveling north from Savoia Pastry Shoppe, I literally saw a house with bars on the windows, a Rottweiler on the porch, and an empty oil drum on the lawn right next to a house that was beautifully landscaped, immaculately taken care of, and aesthetically beautiful.
I have lived in Boston, Miami, Philadelphia, New Jersey, Vermont, Fort Lauderdale, Tampa, and traveled all over the globe for my work, and I have never seen something so dramatic as that landscape in Rochester. It was just foreign to me - but perhaps I am overreacting because I do not know Rochester well enough to understand it's unique personality.
The area around Savoia Pastry shop is a transitional zone so you'll get a bit of the bad and a bit of the good, so what you saw was accurate. In the suburban areas, not so much due to the lower rental numbers. I find the more run down homes in suburban areas to be owned be elderly persons who can't take care of their homes but refuse to move. But I've seen this virtually everywhere I've been with the exception of Burlington VT. It's funny because I've notice more of what you describe in Florida and less once you get more into the Northeast as far as a nice place next to a run down place.
The area around Savoia Pastry shop is a transitional zone so you'll get a bit of the bad and a bit of the good, so what you saw was accurate. In the suburban areas, not so much due to the lower rental numbers. I find the more run down homes in suburban areas to be owned be elderly persons who can't take care of their homes but refuse to move. But I've seen this virtually everywhere I've been with the exception of Burlington VT. It's funny because I've notice more of what you describe in Florida and less once you get more into the Northeast as far as a nice place next to a run down place.
In reference to my original post, I would agree in terms of Florida. In Miami, you literally have ghetto's like Overtown within shouting distance of places like Bayfront Park and Brickell Key. Rochester reminded me slightly of what South Beach was like in the early 90's.......one massive transition. There was a mansion built half a block from a tenement. It was anarchy and property and neighborhood lines weren't divided by space, but rather walls. There would just be a gated community with eight foot walls containing million dollar homes, and outside the walls there were families struggling to eat.
I also lived on Colchester Avenue in Burlington, VT as well. So I can value the comparison.
So, if in fact the transitional areas of Rochester are so frequent, my question is - why is the transition so slow? Is it a stagnant economy? Is it unfunded and unfinished public works projects? Is it a refusal of families to move out and sell, while developers then are forced into the more rural areas?
All of this is relevant for me because the cost of living, the quality of schools, and the overall tax burden seems to fluctuate considerably from places like Greece, Gates, and Irondequoit to places like Victor, Pittsford, and Webster. I speak of course only in regards to statistical data and census records. I have no actual living experience in the area - hence, me being so inquisitive here.
In reference to my original post, I would agree in terms of Florida. In Miami, you literally have ghetto's like Overtown within shouting distance of places like Bayfront Park and Brickell Key. Rochester reminded me slightly of what South Beach was like in the early 90's.......one massive transition. There was a mansion built half a block from a tenement. It was anarchy and property and neighborhood lines weren't divided by space, but rather walls. There would just be a gated community with eight foot walls containing million dollar homes, and outside the walls there were families struggling to eat.
I also lived on Colchester Avenue in Burlington, VT as well. So I can value the comparison.
So, if in fact the transitional areas of Rochester are so frequent, my question is - why is the transition so slow? Is it a stagnant economy? Is it unfunded and unfinished public works projects? Is it a refusal of families to move out and sell, while developers then are forced into the more rural areas?
All of this is relevant for me because the cost of living, the quality of schools, and the overall tax burden seems to fluctuate considerably from places like Greece, Gates, and Irondequoit to places like Victor, Pittsford, and Webster. I speak of course only in regards to statistical data and census records. I have no actual living experience in the area - hence, me being so inquisitive here.
Thank You for your response and feedback.
It has more to do with family flight to the suburbs. Some of the city neighborhoods that fit the description are filled with poorer people who can't afford the suburbs or older people who refuse to move. The nicer areas of the city where you don't see where you don't see the bad next to the good are filled with younger people and empty nesters who have no concerns about the schools.
I am in Irondequoit and the tax burden is horrible. We have two school districts which aren't needed and create lots of unnecessary jobs that burden the tax payers.
It has more to do with family flight to the suburbs. Some of the city neighborhoods that fit the description are filled with poorer people who can't afford the suburbs or older people who refuse to move. The nicer areas of the city where you don't see where you don't see the bad next to the good are filled with younger people and empty nesters who have no concerns about the schools.
I am in Irondequoit and the tax burden is horrible. We have two school districts which aren't needed and create lots of unnecessary jobs that burden the tax payers.
Another aspect with the very nice city/urban neighborhoods is that many of those people with kids are going with private schools anyway, get into the good charter schools, homeschool or are the families with kids that get into the good programs or schools in the public city school district(School of the Arts, the IB program at Wilson Magnet, Francis Parker Elementary, etc.). So, as long as the neighborhood is stable and they get the school situation they want, then those families see no reason to move. This isn't just a Rochester thing, but is common with Upstate NY and many other "older" cities as well.
As for the area suburbs, I wouldn't worry much, as the other posts stated. There is a reputation that the Western suburbs aren't as affluent as the Eastern suburbs, but there are plenty of nice areas, old and new, in the Western suburbs. Actually, my sister and her family live in a newer area in Chili that is fine, with a nice mix of people. So, it may be a matter of finding a neighborhood that feels right.
Another aspect with the very nice city/urban neighborhoods is that many of those people with kids are going with private schools anyway, get into the good charter schools, homeschool or are the families with kids that get into the good programs or schools in the public city school district(School of the Arts, the IB program at Wilson Magnet, Francis Parker Elementary, etc.). So, as long as the neighborhood is stable and they get the school situation they want, then those families see no reason to move. This isn't just a Rochester thing, but is common with Upstate NY and many other "older" cities as well.
As for the area suburbs, I wouldn't worry much, as the other posts stated. There is a reputation that the Western suburbs aren't as affluent as the Eastern suburbs, but there are plenty of nice areas, old and new, in the Western suburbs. Actually, my sister and her family live in a newer area in Chili that is fine, with a nice mix of people. So, it may be a matter of finding a neighborhood that feels right.
So then, if I might ask (both of you and Garmin239), as it pertains to Western New York in general, if the tax burdens overall are high, with property tax obviously being extremely high, where are all these funds collected by tax payers allocated to? I mean, in my few short visits to the area, I enjoyed it very much. In terms of a place to slow down, with abundant natural resources, well priced homes, and seemingly well priced services (hotels, restaurants, public parking, etc etc) it hits on all cylinders for myself and my extended family. But as I did not see many public works projects in the area (other than a few aesthetically pleasing public parks) I cannot help but wonder where all the tax dollars go?
Imagine a state with New York like property taxes (although admittedly not as bad), Illinois like debt, New Jersey like estate, inheritance, death, and settlement taxes, and property costs like Southern California. Basically, that is Connecticut - and retirees get almost no exemptions of any kind.
So prior to committing ourselves to the Rochester Area, which we all enjoy very much, I would like to hear from residents (as opposed to only analyzing statistics as I usually do) as it pertains to this question;
Where do your tax dollars go?
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