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I found this poll very interesting. It's interesting because RBJ readers tend to be fairly right-wing politically and the most critical of anything downtown. This isn't meant to be a political statement by any means too just for clarity. But I think what it proves is the real desire for many in our area to want to live downtown. If you get 1/3 of RBJ readers saying they are interested, that means that as a whole the entire community is well above that 1/3 in terms of total percentage of residents in the suburbs who are interested.
And 2/3 of those who were interested also preferred to own rather than rent. I think there is a real shift in where many people want to live. Yes downtown is not going to attract families and the city as a whole has to do a better job with schools still so that more families move and stay in the city, but I do believe there is a real desire for young adults and and empty nesters to want to live in more dense areas with closer social ties to each other. And this poll does prove that owner occupied condos are a desired commodity. I foresee more older adults purchasing these condos even if they keep their homes in the suburbs as well. Now if Rochester can get past some of these perceptions about crime I think more people might consider it.
Many of the comments are interesting in the section below the poll. These aren't comments by young college students (not that there's anything wrong with college students, but just isn't the RBJ's demographic), but instead these are white collar professionals expressing a lot of positive opinions about living downtown.
Quote:
Roughly 60 percent of respondents to this week’s RBJ Daily Report Snap Poll say concerns about crime would dissuade them from moving downtown or remaining a downtown resident.
Limited downtown stores and services ranked second on the list of concerns, followed by poor-performing city schools.
A recent RBJ Power Breakfast event focused on the revival of residential real estate in downtown Rochester. More than 6,100 people now live downtown, nearly double the population in 2000, and a number of residential projects are in the works. Among them:
Tower280, the renamed Midtown Tower, a joint venture of Buckingham Properties and Morgan Management that will have close to 180 trendy apartments on its upper floors;
The Sibley Building, a redevelopment project by Boston-based Winn Development Inc. that will have high-end apartments and senior housing;
88 Elm St., 50 Chestnut St. and the Hiram Sibley building, all projects of DHD Ventures LLC;
Charlotte Square, a development by Home Leasing LLC with plans for upscale apartments and for-sale townhomes; and
Chase Tower, whose new owner—Gallina Development Corp.—plans 130 to 150 residential units.
Of those who responded to this week’s poll, 8 percent live downtown, and nearly a third don’t currently live downtown but are interested in living there.
Nearly two-thirds of those interested in making downtown their home say they would prefer to own rather than rent.
More than 620 readers participated in this week’s poll, conducted May 18 and 19.
Do you currently live in downtown Rochester or have interest in living there?
Live in downtown Rochester: 8%
Do not live downtown, but have interest in living there: 32%
Do not live downtown, and do not have interest in living there: 60%
If you live downtown or have interest in living there, what is your preference: rent or own?
Own: 63%
Rent: 37%
I wonder how much of the crime concern is actual crime, or just the undesirable element of people that are known for hanging out downtown that give the allusion of crime due to their appearance an actions. I know violent crimes are relatively rare in the immediate downtown area, but the type of people I constantly see walking around downtown (and the police presence in force strictly to monitor these people) don't really make me want to chance it, or make it seem like an environment I would want to live in if I were in a spot in my life where it'd be a viable option.
I wonder how many of the 60% would live in another area of the city? I ask this because I was talking with my brother in law a couple of weeks ago and he stated that once the kids move out, that he would consider moving to Park Ave or another neighborhood in the SE Quadrant. So, it isn't necessarily Dowbtown or Bust, I'm assuming.
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The inability to attract/keep middle class families is an issue that affects many cities, they are able to attract the empty nesters both young/old but fall short of retaining the most stabilizing group. Schools is usually the #1 reason but I often think the American Dream of a house, yard, picket fence still steers people out of urban cores while raising a family.
The inability to attract/keep middle class families is an issue that affects many cities, they are able to attract the empty nesters both young/old but fall short of retaining the most stabilizing group. Schools is usually the #1 reason but I often think the American Dream of a house, yard, picket fence still steers people out of urban cores while raising a family.
I'm interested to see if that idea of the American Dream will be the same or becomes more complex in the future, given the increase in investing and interest in urban living. You do have communities that combine walkability along with a house with a yard and a picket fence. So, I wonder if more communities look to offer those characteristics down the line.
I'm interested to see if that idea of the American Dream will be the same or becomes more complex in the future, given the increase in investing and interest in urban living.
In the Rochester metro, I'm doubting much will change. The surrounding suburbs are still all too desirable and many people still want a third of an acre or more to call their own and enjoy with the kids and family, not to mention owning a newer home requiring less maintenance and updates. The constant development of untouched land and parcels is proof of that. So while the increased interest in city living will most likely sway some people from the 'burbs, I personally don't see a large change coming any time soon.
I'm interested to see if that idea of the American Dream will be the same or becomes more complex in the future, given the increase in investing and interest in urban living. You do have communities that combine walkability along with a house with a yard and a picket fence. So, I wonder if more communities look to offer those characteristics down the line.
Buffalo offers lots of neighborhoods with nice detached SFDs with yards and even driveways and garages. The problem in Buffalo is the public schools which are such an absolute disaster, starting with a completely dysfunctional school board, that their last superintendent resigned because she wasn't properly vetted; the interim superintendent resigned because of BOE interference; the leading superintendent candidate withdrew his name from consideration; and there's now some serious efforts to return the school board to mayoral control.
This kind of nonsense leads lots of young couples thinking about having families to not even consider buying in the city. Instead, they buy in Kenmore/Tonawanda or Snyder/Williamsville or Hamburg or East Aurora villages where they pay more for the houses and more in taxes but save significantly by not having to pay private school tuition -- and they get considerable walkability, too.
I know that both Albany and Syracuse have suburbs that offer village atmospheres, and my guess is that Rochester does, too. Those kinds of suburban settings are cities' real competitors, not the suburbs that offer tract housing on 1/3 or 1/2 acre lots, and until something changes with urban schools, the cities are going to struggle to stay in the contest.
Buffalo offers lots of neighborhoods with nice detached SFDs with yards and even driveways and garages. The problem in Buffalo is the public schools which are such an absolute disaster, starting with a completely dysfunctional school board, that their last superintendent resigned because she wasn't properly vetted; the interim superintendent resigned because of BOE interference; the leading superintendent candidate withdrew his name from consideration; and there's now some serious efforts to return the school board to mayoral control.
This kind of nonsense leads lots of young couples thinking about having families to not even consider buying in the city. Instead, they buy in Kenmore/Tonawanda or Snyder/Williamsville or Hamburg or East Aurora villages where they pay more for the houses and more in taxes but save significantly by not having to pay private school tuition -- and they get considerable walkability, too.
I know that both Albany and Syracuse have suburbs that offer village atmospheres, and my guess is that Rochester does, too. Those kinds of suburban settings are cities' real competitors, not the suburbs that offer tract housing on 1/3 or 1/2 acre lots, and until something changes with urban schools, the cities are going to struggle to stay in the contest.
I think this hits the nail on the head in regards to what I think would be a happy medium. While village taxes can be pretty high due to duplicate services, villages also offer the walkability with at least solid to very good schools. So, I think if villages started to think outside of the box, they could really appeal to a lot of people. Same for what I call satellite cities like Canandaigua or perhaps even Batavia or Geneva.
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