Rochester vs. Brooklyn - Where should we go? (New York, Brighton: real estate market, rental)

[weetabix wife]

Hi there. I have been reading every post about NYC and Rochester on this site for weeks. I have been trying to find that ONE thing that is going to "cap" it for me on a decision of whether to go to Rochester or Brooklyn that is tearing my insides out. So. I am here to ask all of you fine forum posters your opinion...

Here is the background:

I am originally from Rochester, NY and have lived in different areas of the USA + Europe. I currently live in England with my British husband and we are looking to move to the States after my being here with him for three years after moving from LA.

We live in a mid-sized city on the south coast of England an hour+ outside of London. We like being in a smaller city over here and to have access to London anytime we choose for all of the things we can't get from where we live (great live music, museums, etc.).

These are the facts:

Past

- I commuted to and from London for a high level job every day and after a while, found it really hard (4 hour daily commute).

- We live in a 1 bedroom, 475 square foot flat that cost us $275,000 over here. It is too small and we feel on top of one another all the time.

Current

- We are 33 and 34 years old with no children yet but really want them in the near future.

- There are two job offers for me on the table. One in Rochester, NY with a great job that would pay me 84K/annually at a company known for it's decline in Rochester in the past few decades but this job is safe. The other is a phenomenal start-up (that is in the news every other day and just received 30M in venture capital that could be all over an IPO in 4 years) in Brooklyn would pay me 90K/annually.

- We already have a property (1100 sq. ft) that we invested in and currently rent out in Rochester, NY (South Wedge to be exact). All we would have to do is move in and pay a total of about $1000 for mortgage, utilities and taxes. In Brooklyn, I would have to share an apt. with a stranger for a few months until my husband comes arrives on his visa and then we would have to find a rental since NYC real estate is insane.

- NYC has so much going on culturally as far as arts, music, etc. which are all of our interests right there in front of us. We would never be bored, ever. Rochester doesn't have as much choice and I am afraid my husband will find it boring, we would just have to dig a bit more I think.

- My family still live in Rochester. We know a few acquaintances in NYC.

- Brooklyn is booming, Rochester is declining.

Now, I know all of the positives and negatives about each city. "Rochester is a great place to raise kids but is declining." "NYC is no longer affordable to live, prices keep going up especially in real estate, it is dirty, not a great place to raise kids but there is so much going on as far as jobs, nightlife, culture, entertainment, etc."

I realize that all of this is probably pointing to Rochester but I guess I am wondering if you had all of these negative facts about each on the table, what would you do? We are trying to be smart long term (kids, job longevity, real estate ownership, quality of life, etc.) and I just don't want to make the wrong decision.

Thank you in advance for your help - I am dying over here!

[garmin239]

If you had to make a decision right now I'd say Rochester since your salary would go farther and you already own property.
If the Rochester job you are being offered will still be there in a year you could try living in NYC for a year to see if you like it. If you don't you could always come back here since you have a property and job to fall back on.

[rochacha]

84K will go a long ways in Rochester. Plus, if you want to visit NYC, there are at least 8 flights a day back and forth for a couple hundred dollars (or better) round-trip. It is an hour flight. You'll definitely be able to travel to your heart's content on 84K salary and only $1000 in mortgage.

[jbertol2]

Rochester all the way. Ultimately, you'll have to weigh the pros and cons yourself, but I really believe that Rochester has a much higher quality of life than the rat race that is New York City. Yes, NYC has some of the best cultural amenities in the world, but it is also extremely expensive and congested. Here in Rochester, you can have a beautiful home for less than half of the cost of the same home in NYC, well within a 30 minute commute to your workplace, and you certainly won't have to worry about extreme devaluation because there has never been a housing bubble here. Your kids can have a backyard of their own to run around in, and with the time and energy you'll save from a shorter commute, you can actually spend time with the people you love.

Rochester, like any place, is what you make of it. There is more than enough going on here to keep anyone busy and entertained--however, unlike NYC, it just takes a little bit more effort to find. And don't count Rochester as declining just yet; we're beginning to see something of a renaissance downtown, with a number of companies and investors expressing interest in investment.

To make you feel better about moving here (I hope), here are some of the recent expressions of confidence in Rochester:

100 best places to live and launch - 80. Rochester, N.Y. (80) - FORTUNE Small Business

America's 50 Greenest Cities | Popular Science

PRESS RELEASE: Penton Media’s Expansion Management Magazine Releases 2007 “Quality of Life Quotient" Rankings, Evaluating Affordability of Middle Class Lifestyle

Places Rated Almanac - The Classic Guide for Finding Your Best Places to Live in America by David Savageau!

[rubygreta]

Unless you want to pay $750 per square foot for a coop in one of Brooklyn's nicer neighborhoods (Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope, Cobble Hill, etc), stay in Rochester. That's right, a 1,000-square-foot 2-bedroom with street parking (good luck finding a space) will run you $750,000 (or more). These neighborhoods are beautiful, but you really are going to need big bucks.

And the more "affordable" areas in Brooklyn are still unaffordable, and you wouldn't want to live in them anyway.

I think Rochester's decline is pretty much over. Unlike other older northeast cities, property values are not declining, and the subprime mortgage problem is barely a factor.

[NewYorkDave]

Even though I'm a proud Brooklyn native, I have to recommend you go with Rochester. It just makes a lot more sense considering the facts you've presented.

[I'minformed2]

Rochester's "decline" is EXTREMELY overstated in the media and by many doom and gloom lovers who basically will never be happy. Did we take a big hit with the Kodak cutbacks...absolutely; but it could have and should have been A LOT worse than it was. The economy of the whole US is on the verge of a recession now so chances are things won't be getting a whole lot better in the next few years in Rochester or anywhere else; but we are fairly stalbe now and the employment stats for the past year or so have been much better than the preivious five. We also have a much more stable real estate market than the rest of the country and a lower cost of living (as periovusly stated, with $84k you can live wherever you want in and around Rochester very comfortably) so to ME it would be a no brainer. The biggest thing I warn anybody who is considering moving to Rochester vs. somewhere else is to make sure they have a job lined up and don't move here expecting to find a job fast..but seeing as you already have a well paying and stable job lined up; I say come on over! NYC is less than a day's drive away and a quick and relatively cheap hour plane ride away (Also, Toronto is only a 3-4 hour drive away, which makes it doable for a daytrip) so you can get your fix of whatever major city urban ammenities you need; and then come home to more affordalbe mid-sized Rochester.

[Jansu]

I would just make sure that the "stable" job in the "declining" company is not the only game in town for you or you could be stuck high and dry. If you are really, really confident that job security is a non-issue, then I would go with Rochester as well. Don't forget also that Toronto is just a three hour drive away also when you get itchy for a really big city. I grew up in Boston, spent lots of time in NYC and lived in Atlanta, and I am very happy with the cultural offerings of Rochester and the fine quality of the public schools. Very educated folks around here.

[Muggy]

Originally Posted by weetabix wife

We are trying to be smart long term

That's all you had to write.

[karen824]

Hi,
Just wanted to add my two cents in terms of your concerns about access to cultural activities. We recently moved here to Rochester (actually, Brighton, a suburb) from Westchester County. I was born in the Bronx and lived almost my entire life in the NYC metro area. I love theater, ballet, concerts, museums, etc. and being near those things is very important to me. We decided to relocate to Rochester to be nearer to my husband's family and because living in Westchester was killing us financially. I love it here and don't feel deprived at all from a cultural perspective. The GEVA Theater is great, the Auditorium Theater gets many touring Broadway productions, there is of course the Rochester Philharmonic and all of the concerts through the Eastman School of Music. The Memorial Art Gallery has a very good collection and right now they are showing wonderful Impressionist paintings from the Phillips Collection in DC. I almost feel that I'm doing more culturally here, because it's so much easier to get to things--no taking the train in & out of the city or fighting traffic and worrying about parking.
And as others have said, it's not that hard to get to NYC when you want to, either flying, taking the train or driving.
I did also want to mention that when your (future) kids are approaching school age, you might want to consider renting out your city property and moving to one of the suburbs. The Rochester City Schools are just not good, but most of the suburban districts are good to excellent.
Good luck with your decision!