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The city itself doesn’t build highways. So, I’m confused why the city itself is being brought up. The general goal of the interstate system was to move people around and given the time that they were built and completed, it was during a time of great suburban growth.
Now if you are referring to now, yes, the tearing down of the Inner Loop is likely for the development/density purposes. Given that a lot of cities are developing from Downtown out, the tearing down of the Inner Loop is likely designed to spread development out from there.
I’m referring to the jobs said people came to the city for in terms of deindustrialization.
I don’t know if there aren’t people around that remember what the neighborhood looked like, but you could technically call the Thurston Village a business district with mostly black owned businesses. It is different in that now the black population is just bigger and more dispersed. Some of it may be more competition for funding, pooling money together, taking a risk, person situation, policy, etc. are some other aspects.
I think the question should be asked comes back to why did a black based business district/community have to be destroyed in order for many highways across the country to be built? I think that is the question that needs to be asked, given the pattern across the country. Some of this may be a matter of asking the right questions as well.
You're too much. Looking for problems and someone to blame, where there is none. That really helps to motivate people to pull up their own bootstraps and make a life for themselves tomorrow morning. No amount of blaming someone else will help, but, as I keep saying, it sure makes certain people feel good about themselves, while holding down the people they purport to be helping.
You're too much. Looking for problems and someone to blame, where there is none. That really helps to motivate people to pull up their own bootstraps and make a life for themselves tomorrow morning. No amount of blaming someone else will help, but, as I keep saying, it sure makes certain people feel good about themselves, while holding down the people they purport to be helping.
No, I'm just stating that there is a pattern that looks like that is being denied. History is real whether people state what the Founding Fathers have done in terms of government or the impact of Urban Renewal. I already stated multiple predominantly black/highly black or mixed with a substantial black presence neighborhoods where this occurred. Perhaps the part of the problem is that this isn't taught and in turn, when it comes to light, it destroys an aspect of what they believe in regards to this country that has its faults at times. Welcome to the human condition.
What is crazy is that Urban Renewal not only destroyed specific neighborhoods, it caused a chain reaction. Meaning, those people from the destroyed neighborhoods had to have somewhere to go, but many times the neighborhoods they went to, the people there didn't really want them there and in turn, that was further push for people to move to the suburbs. So, then in a city like Rochester that has small city limits, you continue to lose population, even when people of different backgrounds continue to move into the city/area. That is how you get a Rochester that goes from roughly 8% black in 1960 out of 318,611 people to one that becomes 25% black in 1980 to now being roughly 40% black(and about 20% Hispanic) out of 211,328 people.
To be honest, even the people that claim to pulled themselves by their bootstraps get help along the way, whether they want to deny that or not. So, perhaps we need to get over ourselves and realize that no one is really a "made man or woman" like they may claim to be. Many people still "make it" regardless of the fact of the matter. In fact, telling the truth may actually be more of a catalyst in making people realize to not trust/rely on the government or to find other ways to go about "making it"(legally of course).
Lastly, I didn't initially mention the racial aspect, but simply explained where it came from.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 08-16-2021 at 05:25 AM..
.........I think the question should be asked comes back to why did a black based business district/community have to be destroyed in order for many highways across the country to be built? I think that is the question that needs to be asked, given the pattern across the country. Some of this may be a matter of asking the right questions as well.
Because, generally, when designing and plotting paths for new highways, the civil engineers determine a starting point, and end point, and draw a straight line between those two points, and that becomes the path of the new highway.
If you think that the location of every highway around Rochester is designed to displace minorities, then can you explain why several exquisite, "mid century modern" mansions, on East Avenue, at the Rochester/Brighton border, were torn down, when the "Eastern Crossover" of 490 and 590, later dubbed the "Can of Worms", was constructed? I can still recall one of them, in particular, as my father knew the owner. They were gorgeous homes, the kind you'd see in magazines, in the upscale section of Rochester. However, they were in the way of progress, and consequently, they were torn down.
Same situation in Irondequoit, when the 104 expressway was built. A straight line, about 1/4 mile south of Ridge Road was drawn, between what was Route 47, now I590, and the Veterans Memorial Bridge, and the bulldozers moved in, tearing down a large number of middle class houses. They were "in the way", simple as that.....
Because, generally, when designing and plotting paths for new highways, the civil engineers determine a starting point, and end point, and draw a straight line between those two points, and that becomes the path of the new highway.
If you think that the location of every highway around Rochester is designed to displace minorities, then can you explain why several exquisite, "mid century modern" mansions, on East Avenue, at the Rochester/Brighton border, were torn down, when the "Eastern Crossover" of 490 and 590, later dubbed the "Can of Worms", was constructed? I can still recall one of them, in particular, as my father knew the owner. They were gorgeous homes, the kind you'd see in magazines, in the upscale section of Rochester. However, they were in the way of progress, and consequently, they were torn down.
Same situation in Irondequoit, when the 104 expressway was built. A straight line, about 1/4 mile south of Ridge Road was drawn, between what was Route 47, now I590, and the Veterans Memorial Bridge, and the bulldozers moved in, tearing down a large number of middle class houses. They were "in the way", simple as that.....
I didn't say that. I explained the reason behind why there is a racial component involved in said discussions. That is totally different from that bolded sentence.
Yes, other highways did involve tearing down homes or buildings. I think the difference from the pattern of what occurred with black/select mixed neighborhoods is that the entire fabric of said neighborhoods were torn down/displaced to the point of very recognition that a black/mixed business district/community existed versus tearing down a handful or row of homes. Just using a Rochester example, go to Clarissa Street in Corn Hill now and let people know if there is much recognition of what could have been a business district there, let alone a highly black business district. This street view appears to be the only possibility: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1509...7i13312!8i6656
Because, generally, when designing and plotting paths for new highways, the civil engineers determine a starting point, and end point, and draw a straight line between those two points, and that becomes the path of the new highway.
If you think that the location of every highway around Rochester is designed to displace minorities, then can you explain why several exquisite, "mid century modern" mansions, on East Avenue, at the Rochester/Brighton border, were torn down, when the "Eastern Crossover" of 490 and 590, later dubbed the "Can of Worms", was constructed? I can still recall one of them, in particular, as my father knew the owner. They were gorgeous homes, the kind you'd see in magazines, in the upscale section of Rochester. However, they were in the way of progress, and consequently, they were torn down.
Same situation in Irondequoit, when the 104 expressway was built. A straight line, about 1/4 mile south of Ridge Road was drawn, between what was Route 47, now I590, and the Veterans Memorial Bridge, and the bulldozers moved in, tearing down a large number of middle class houses. They were "in the way", simple as that.....
I'm starting to think the Erie Canal was racist now. I haven't heard it mentioned, maybe because it was on the east side. Yup, cut right through Swillberg. Funny, that area has a thriving commercial area. Hmmm. Winton rd area thriving. Hmmm. University Ave thriving. Hmmm. Even the Inner Loop was a thriving area before filling it in. Hmmm.
I'm starting to think the Erie Canal was racist now. I haven't heard it mentioned, maybe because it was on the east side. Yup, cut right through Swillberg. Funny, that area has a thriving commercial area. Hmmm. Winton rd area thriving. Hmmm. University Ave thriving. Hmmm. Even the Inner Loop was a thriving area before filling it in. Hmmm.
Nope....Different circumstances, as it was there before Rochester really grew and all of those commercial areas didn't get destroyed by Urban Renewal.
Again, if you want to pick a similar example for a current commercial area with a high black business concentration, this is one: https://rocwiki.org/Thurston_Village
Nope....Different circumstances, as it was there before Rochester really grew and all of those commercial areas didn't get destroyed by Urban Renewal.
Again, if you want to pick a similar example for a current commercial area with a high black business concentration, this is one: https://rocwiki.org/Thurston_Village
All of these streets are in/next to the 19th Ward.
You could throw in parts of Portland, Lyell and Dewey as well.
None of these areas were affected by a highway being built. Further, they were established commercial areas before long blacks moved in.
Back to the subject. You just stated that the black population in Rochester was 8% in 1960. The area I 490 cut through by your own stat was 92% white, so yes, very racist against white people. Not only that, the area was predominantly Italian, so the number was probably more whites. But then again Italians were discriminated against too. They overcame their disadvantages!!!!
Nope....Different circumstances, as it was there before Rochester really grew and all of those commercial areas didn't get destroyed by Urban Renewal.
Nope, nope, nope. It cut right through Brighton, near to village center. The old town hall was still there until they built the new Wegmans. Brighton re-established it's business center around Monroe Ave and the 12 Corners. They built a new town hall and everything is good. Monroe Ave is far more successful that all those areas you mentioned combined. Somewhere in there the city acquired part of Brighton, forcing the move, but doesn't change the fact that the Erie Canal, Subway and I 490 all cut through this area
None of these areas were affected by a highway being built. Further, they were established commercial areas before long blacks moved in.
Back to the subject. You just stated that the black population in Rochester was 8% in 1960. The area I 490 cut through by your own stat was 92% white, so yes, very racist against white people. Not only that, the area was predominantly Italian, so the number was probably more whites. But then again Italians were discriminated against too. They overcame their disadvantages!!!!
Again, I-490 was built in part in an old Erie Canal bed and didn't destroy the business district of the Italian neighborhood, to my knowledge. So, it is a bit different. This also answers the response about Brighton, which frankly seems to be all over the place.
Also, my point of posting those areas was to show current areas of the city where there is some degree of black business activity.
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