Rochester Economy? (Maine: school, salary, internship)

[lovebrentwood]

Correction to my earlier post: North Carolina now has the FOURTH highest (not sixth) in the country.

[I'minformed2]

I really feel bad for people who lived in NC before 2000. Around that time it was target as the new "in" place with EVERYONE looking to move there. It was never cheaper to live in Raleigh than Rochester; but Raleigh definitely got way more expensive between 2000 and 2007...right about its peak growth rate. People from all of the mega expensive areas like NY/NJ, Boston, DC, Florida, California, etc saw it as some bargain basement place to move, because for THEM it was a great deal. Now its overpopulated, way over sprawled, getting more and more expensive and losing its charecter/community vibe. Instead of being a place where middle class people from economically distressed areas could come to improve their career and move up the socioeconomic ladder; it has transformed to a place where upper-middle class people who were already upwardly mobile could "cash out" and live like they are rich. Pretty sad. All of this happening (plus simply wanting to be near family again) did prompt us to move back up here to good ole' Rochester in 2007 and we are very happy about that; but its bittersweet because there are still thousands of people in Wake County who now feel like outsiders in their once comfortable home.

[juppiter]

Originally Posted by I'minformed2

I really feel bad for people who lived in NC before 2000. Around that time it was target as the new "in" place with EVERYONE looking to move there. It was never cheaper to live in Raleigh than Rochester; but Raleigh definitely got way more expensive between 2000 and 2007...right about its peak growth rate. People from all of the mega expensive areas like NY/NJ, Boston, DC, Florida, California, etc saw it as some bargain basement place to move, because for THEM it was a great deal. Now its overpopulated, way over sprawled, getting more and more expensive and losing its charecter/community vibe. Instead of being a place where middle class people from economically distressed areas could come to improve their career and move up the socioeconomic ladder; it has transformed to a place where upper-middle class people who were already upwardly mobile could "cash out" and live like they are rich. Pretty sad. All of this happening (plus simply wanting to be near family again) did prompt us to move back up here to good ole' Rochester in 2007 and we are very happy about that; but its bittersweet because there are still thousands of people in Wake County who now feel like outsiders in their once comfortable home.

Not such a horrible thing if you already lived there, because that means your home value likely went way up.

I do see what you mean though, but if people don't like it there anymore they probably have enough money to move to a better place if they sold their homes.

I know I'm very very concerned about the job climate... I will graduate May 2010 and I want to stay in upstate NY or at least the Northeast... but I might just have to sweat it out in the sunbelt for five years or so. The job I have now pays very well, but you have to be a full time student :-(

[I'minformed2]

Well, like others have said here. The "sunbelt" is no longer a hotbed for high job growth. It really isn't much better down there than up here.

[Snoogs]

Let me offer a second opinion as a former Rochester resident (for bonafides, I attended RIT and lived and worked in the Rochester area from 1987 to 2007 in Henrietta, Scottsville, Brighton, and Webster). I moved to Apex, NC (about a nine-iron from the Cary town line) in 2007. So I too know a little something about both places and can comment some about the character of each.

I think Rochester has a lot going for it. The weather in the summer is very pleasant, though my wife did not like the winters at all. Rochester has very short springs and autumns and long bone chilling winters and summers Rochester has a number of good restaurants (more so I think than Cary - we love us some Phillips European and Simply Crepes) and some very friendly people. Add in things like Sea Breeze (Raleigh has nothing like it so nearby), Garth Fagan dance, the summer festivals, and Wegmans and it's a great package.

Having said all that, the Raleigh/Durham area has a lot of nice things going for it too. I have found the people to be very open and engaging, you have four genuine 3-month seasons (including just enough snow to remind you that it's winter and give the kids a day off from school but not enough to break your back shoveling). The summers are indeed hot, but the air conditioning is plentiful and I prefer hot summers to bone-chilling winters. I think the school my daughter attends now is much better than the one she attended up there, and we really enjoy the year round school calendar (for those of you who may not know, down here some of the schools are "year round", meaning children attend classes for about nine weeks, then get three weeks off, then nine weeks on, three weeks off, and so on year round). Some parents hate it, but it works very well for my family. The IT market, where my wife and I both work, is far better here than it was in Rochester (even with the recent RTP layoffs), and my wife found her "dream job" at a local employer and wouldn't give it up for all the tea in China!). My house down here cost about 50% more than my house in Rochester, but it is also bigger and the property taxes (even with that higher cost basis) are still significantly lower. And, it will actually go up in value (not stay the same). FWIW, Raleigh continues to rate extremely highly on various national surveys of the best places to live and work (see Forbes, for example). Oh, and did I mention that the beach is only a couple of hours away?

As for the unemployment rates, a lot of people are throwing around a lot of stats that may not mean as much as the seem to at first. Like another poster indicated, it depends on what city and county you live in as well as what field you work in. Wake county, where Raleigh and Cary are, has one of the lowest unemployment rates in NC, so to quote a state-wide unemployment rate as a reason to not move to Raleigh is a little off the mark. Just as I'm sure Monroe county has a different unemployment rate than Allegany or Cattaraugus counties in the southern tier. It should be noted too that most unemployment statistics don't count those that have given up looking for work, those that have found only part-time work, and those that are underemployed (that is, working for a lower wage than they would have accepted in better economic cycles). So I take such stats with a grain of salt. For those who fixate on such things, however, I found a site that indicated that the unemployment rate in the triangle was about 8.3% in February 2009, while in Monroe county rate at that same time was 8.5% (http:///www.economagic.com). Not a huge difference either way.

I think both cities have a lot to offer, perhaps different things to different people. In the final analysis, the biggest differentiator between the two metropolitan areas, and the factor that will play ultimately play the biggest role in the eventual destiny of both cities, is the simple fact that the population (especially among the young and the college-educated) is moving away from cities like Rochester, Buffalo, and Syracuse and toward cities like Raleigh, Atlanta, and Houston. Some of the local media, I think including Bob Lonsberry on WHAM, used to refer to this as the "brain drain". That trend started long before this current recession, and likely hasn't slowed down much (indeed, it has only accelerated here - Raleigh is now the fastest growing city in America according to a story I saw on the local evening news down here recently). Whether you think that's good or bad is a personal choice of course, but it is a fact and it will likely eventually affect the opportunities and challenges of both cities more so than just about any other factor you could name.

For my wife and I, at this point in our careers and lives, Raleigh is the better place to live. But we still have family and friends in Rochester, and we try to return at least once or twice a year to visit and catch up and see what's changed and how they're doing.

[I'minformed2]

Snoogs...we also lived in Apex for 2 years after about 3 years in N. Raleigh, 4 years in Cary, and 4 years in South Raleigh. We actually really did enjoy Apex and felt it had a nice small-town feel (though that was changing dramatically when we left in 2007). My son graduated from Apex high and we were very happy with that school. We moved back to Rochester mostly for family reasons and because we also wanted our youngest to not have anything to do with WCPSS but we did enjoy Apex. We were renting there for 2 years in Hollands Crossing off Olive Chapel road and were looking to buy in either Scotts Mill or Walden Creek before deiciding to come back to NY.

[cheese9988]

Originally Posted by Snoogs

Let me offer a second opinion as a former Rochester resident (for bonafides, I attended RIT and lived and worked in the Rochester area from 1987 to 2007 in Henrietta, Scottsville, Brighton, and Webster). I moved to Apex, NC (about a nine-iron from the Cary town line) in 2007. So I too know a little something about both places and can comment some about the character of each.

I think Rochester has a lot going for it. The weather in the summer is very pleasant, though my wife did not like the winters at all. Rochester has very short springs and autumns and long bone chilling winters and summers Rochester has a number of good restaurants (more so I think than Cary - we love us some Phillips European and Simply Crepes) and some very friendly people. Add in things like Sea Breeze (Raleigh has nothing like it so nearby), Garth Fagan dance, the summer festivals, and Wegmans and it's a great package.

Having said all that, the Raleigh/Durham area has a lot of nice things going for it too. I have found the people to be very open and engaging, you have four genuine 3-month seasons (including just enough snow to remind you that it's winter and give the kids a day off from school but not enough to break your back shoveling). The summers are indeed hot, but the air conditioning is plentiful and I prefer hot summers to bone-chilling winters. I think the school my daughter attends now is much better than the one she attended up there, and we really enjoy the year round school calendar (for those of you who may not know, down here some of the schools are "year round", meaning children attend classes for about nine weeks, then get three weeks off, then nine weeks on, three weeks off, and so on year round). Some parents hate it, but it works very well for my family. The IT market, where my wife and I both work, is far better here than it was in Rochester (even with the recent RTP layoffs), and my wife found her "dream job" at a local employer and wouldn't give it up for all the tea in China!). My house down here cost about 50% more than my house in Rochester, but it is also bigger and the property taxes (even with that higher cost basis) are still significantly lower. And, it will actually go up in value (not stay the same). FWIW, Raleigh continues to rate extremely highly on various national surveys of the best places to live and work (see Forbes, for example). Oh, and did I mention that the beach is only a couple of hours away?

As for the unemployment rates, a lot of people are throwing around a lot of stats that may not mean as much as the seem to at first. Like another poster indicated, it depends on what city and county you live in as well as what field you work in. Wake county, where Raleigh and Cary are, has one of the lowest unemployment rates in NC, so to quote a state-wide unemployment rate as a reason to not move to Raleigh is a little off the mark. Just as I'm sure Monroe county has a different unemployment rate than Allegany or Cattaraugus counties in the southern tier. It should be noted too that most unemployment statistics don't count those that have given up looking for work, those that have found only part-time work, and those that are underemployed (that is, working for a lower wage than they would have accepted in better economic cycles). So I take such stats with a grain of salt. For those who fixate on such things, however, I found a site that indicated that the unemployment rate in the triangle was about 8.3% in February 2009, while in Monroe county rate at that same time was 8.5% (http:///www.economagic.com). Not a huge difference either way.

I think both cities have a lot to offer, perhaps different things to different people. In the final analysis, the biggest differentiator between the two metropolitan areas, and the factor that will play ultimately play the biggest role in the eventual destiny of both cities, is the simple fact that the population (especially among the young and the college-educated) is moving away from cities like Rochester, Buffalo, and Syracuse and toward cities like Raleigh, Atlanta, and Houston. Some of the local media, I think including Bob Lonsberry on WHAM, used to refer to this as the "brain drain". That trend started long before this current recession, and likely hasn't slowed down much (indeed, it has only accelerated here - Raleigh is now the fastest growing city in America according to a story I saw on the local evening news down here recently). Whether you think that's good or bad is a personal choice of course, but it is a fact and it will likely eventually affect the opportunities and challenges of both cities more so than just about any other factor you could name.

For my wife and I, at this point in our careers and lives, Raleigh is the better place to live. But we still have family and friends in Rochester, and we try to return at least once or twice a year to visit and catch up and see what's changed and how they're doing.

Thanks for the post, especially that you stated both sides of the story.

I have lived in the Buffalo, Raleigh and the Rochester metro areas and have at least visited a dozen other large cities. We wanted to move to NC, for most of the reasons you described. I never liked hot weather, but my wife does. But with all of the good information we had heard about the area, we decided to vacation there. We ended up going to Charlotte and then to the Outer Banks, which I had been to once before.

Charlotte was very nice, and had a downtown to walk around with a number of shops. There were alot of highrises and banks, very pleasing. We stayed in Charlotte for a few days and traveled to the Outer Banks for the rest of our trip.

When I went to look for a job however, the best I could find were either in Greensboro or Raleigh. My job is more manufacturing related and Raleighs proximity to RTP probably had an influence on my job find.

The move to Raleigh was not what our expectations were of North Carolina. Raleigh was very different from anywhere I had lived. The first thing we noticed was the constant traffic jams and longer commutes. The area also had a large number of illegal immigrants, however the Mexican food was outstanding. The heat was unbearable for me, but my wife loved the 70 degree nights.

The apartment was ok, large, air conditioned, but very expensive. It cost almost $400 more a month with utilities than my last apartment in NY which included heat. The housing we couldn't have afforded, at least not in the city. Some of my coworkers found cheap housing, but had to drive a good distance out of the city to get to it, with traffic I didn't think it was worth it. With the extra cost of living in Raleigh, the higher taxes in NY really were not all that bad.

Raleigh had very nice shopping centers and malls, not much of a downtown. The sprawl, created too many traffic problems, one minimall after a housing development after another. Box stores and chain restaurants are not my idea of a night on the town.

We liked the two hour drive to the beach, the city also had dog parks, something I wish Rochester would build. Cary had many recreational parks with tennis courts and such.

Raleigh has plenty of jobs, but the mentality seems different. There are definetely more "blue collar" workers Upstate and believe in buying American products. Most people in Raleigh didn't seem to care either way. Not talking about everyone down there.

When we came back to NY we ended up making more money, and with the cost of living we had more spending cash on top of that. We went from an apartment complex in umbearable heat, with illegal immigrants to a quaint older apartment with wood floors, real wood moulding in a city neighborhood. We could walk to get food, go out to a family owned restaurant, we had almost no traffic problems. The neighborhood was upscale and we actually had english speaking neighbors who would say hi. We later bought a house, that even with NYs rediculous tax system, cost just as much as that apartment did in Cary.

Now I am admitting I don't like Raleigh. I wouldn't have moved there if someone would have been up front with me about it, we didn't visit there when we vacationed and that was our fault. Its possible we would have stayed in NC had we moved to Charlotte, but it is more difficult to find a job in my carreer field there. Raleigh was a big turnoff for us, we expected a city you see in the movies, warm, greeting with shops up and down the street. Not the same Applebees chain I could have gotton in Amherst. The move to Rochester was what we needed and still ended up being a new town for us to explore.

[mike081983]

Not trying to hijack the thread or anything but I figured since this was about the economy I would add to it. As some know I'm on the move to Rochester this Wednesday and was wondering how the IT industry is doing in Rochester?

Is it well enough to where I could hold out for an IT job and possibility land one in a few weeks to 1 month?

Or should I try for manufacturing for the time being till an IT job rolls around, meaning will I be looking at 2 to 6 months before I get a chance to land an IT job?

[rochacha]

Originally Posted by mike081983

Not trying to hijack the thread or anything but I figured since this was about the economy I would add to it. As some know I'm on the move to Rochester this Wednesday and was wondering how the IT industry is doing in Rochester?

Is it well enough to where I could hold out for an IT job and possibility land one in a few weeks to 1 month?

Or should I try for manufacturing for the time being till an IT job rolls around, meaning will I be looking at 2 to 6 months before I get a chance to land an IT job?

What exactly in IT do you do? If you are a C#/Java programmer with a few years of experience, you probably will not have any problem finding a job. Opinions on other skills can be provided with general details on your experience.

[mike081983]

Originally Posted by rochacha

What exactly in IT do you do? If you are a C#/Java programmer with a few years of experience, you probably will not have any problem finding a job. Opinions on other skills can be provided with general details on your experience.

Well currently I'm in school working towards my BS in software engineering along with 11 certifications. They range from Networking+ to Project+ however, currently I have a AA in IT of science along with a PC repair certification with 1 year experience.

I was looking for more an internship or an entry level to build my resume up. Maine where I am moving from just offer nothing for the entry level. I did see quite a bit in Rochester but I'm just wondering how long and what are the chances I will be all set.