What's Up with the Segregation Here? (Rochester, Greece: schools, university, live in)

[Aorre]

Oh okay, I wasn't sure what you were referring to. D'oh!

The statistics speak for themselves. I know quite a few non-white families in the suburbs that are middle class or rich and don't deal with any racial discrimination or segregation. However it's unfortunate that there's a double standard when you bring race into the picture. A white person can't call a black person in the city ghetto or broke or whatever but the white person can be called trailer trash or something. Oh well!

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Aorre

Oh okay, I wasn't sure what you were referring to. D'oh!

The statistics speak for themselves. I know quite a few non-white families in the suburbs that are middle class or rich and don't deal with any racial discrimination or segregation. However it's unfortunate that there's a double standard when you bring race into the picture. A white person can't call a black person in the city ghetto or broke or whatever but the white person can be called trailer trash or something. Oh well!

I don't necessarily know about that, but I think comparatively speaking, some groups would take that double standard in exchange for a more serious one that they deal with.

[mycrows]

Originally Posted by Salmanal

Having seen seeing different cultures worldwide, a lot of the world's poor respect there own neighborhoods, you also will not find the number of corner markets selling food to go. Combing this with a mostly
Poorly Educated American populace, is a recipe for garbage on the streets.
You'll find corner markets in suburban neighborhoods as well,
why are the streets much cleaner? In Europe, the more "urban" areas will
have garbage on the streets along with the graffiti. Sir, I do have
more clues than you think....... I am suburban, inner cities are fine, but I
didn't know this city before I moved here. Yes, I have lived in a "clean"
inner city back in CA with no "Street Urchins" standing on corners.
If it wasn't an emergency when I moved, I wouldn't have chosen
this part of Maplewood, I've seen other streets that appear more
to my liking; it is not the neighborhood, it is the street within the neighborhood that turns me off; got it?

I get that you have a problem with poor people and that you're pretty judgmental about other people's behavior. That's nothing to be proud of. You've written several posts now about how "trashy" your Maplewood neighbors are, yet the worst you've come up with is that they often buy their food from corner stores and sometimes litter. If you were dealing with safety issues (e.g. you'd been robbed or intimidated by your neighbors) I'd have a lot more sympathy for you. But you're not: Maplewood is safe. I don't like your judgmental tone (for example, what do you care what the inside of their houses look like?) and the fact that you're grandstanding how open-minded you are seems a little ironic to me, given what you've posted. And I have family in Maplewood so I take your comments personally.

My advice: grow up, learn to pick up the trash that blows into your yard like the rest of us do, and live and let live with your neighbors. Or you can go back to the suburbs. You're probably not going to find your fantasy land of a wealthy, ethnically diverse area in any quantity outside of a few large cities (like San Francisco, New York, maybe Boston, DC or Chicago as well).

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by mycrows

I get that you have a problem with poor people and that you're pretty judgmental about other people's behavior. That's nothing to be proud of. You've written several posts now about how "trashy" your Maplewood neighbors are, yet the worst you've come up with is that they often buy their food from corner stores and sometimes litter. If you were dealing with safety issues (e.g. you'd been robbed or intimidated by your neighbors) I'd have a lot more sympathy for you. But you're not: Maplewood is safe. I don't like your judgmental tone (for example, what do you care what the inside of their houses look like?) and the fact that you're grandstanding how open-minded you are seems a little ironic to me, given what you've posted. And I have family in Maplewood so I take your comments personally.

My advice: grow up, learn to pick up the trash that blows into your yard like the rest of us do, and live and let live with your neighbors. Or you can go back to the suburbs. You're probably not going to find your fantasy land of a wealthy, ethnically diverse area in any quantity outside of a few large cities (like San Francisco, New York, maybe Boston, DC or Chicago as well).

I was going to say, isn't Maplewood one of the more stable and diverse neighborhoods in the city of Rochester?

[HowardRoarke]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

I was going to say, isn't Maplewood one of the more stable and diverse neighborhoods in the city of Rochester?

Depends on what one's definition of "Maplewood" is, and who you ask.

"Maplewood" used to refer to the area right around Maplewood Park, which certainly is a nice, albeit small, section within the 10th Ward/NW part of the city. I understood it to be the area around the park, and north towards the Veterans' Bridge (river side of Lake Ave.). The homes were mostly built by upper management at Kodak Park, which is a stone's throw from the neighborhood. Seneca Parkway is the nice street which runs from Maplewood to the area next to Aquinas HS, and it was designed by Frederick Law Olmstead (along with about 3 or so other streets in Rochester, Genesee Valley Park, and Seneca Park).

The current definition of Maplewood includes most of the old 10th Ward, from the railroad tracks in the west, to the river in the east, to Driving Park Ave. in the south, and Ridge Rd. W. in the north. This was a solid neighborhood up until about 1990, with a somewhat vibrant Dewey Ave. corridor, Lake Ave. corridor, and two supermarkets. The late 90's saw some investment along Dewey, however, it's changed a lot over the last several years, with many businesses leaving/shutting down. Lots of drug activity there, now, and there have been some high-profile crimes there in the last several years.

Some of my growing up years were spent in the 10th Ward, until we moved out to the west side of the county. It was still nice, then (around '90). I had an apartment in a house on the nice end of Flower City Park '99-'00, and even considered buying the house (2.5 story, 2300 sq. ft., 2 full baths, 2 massive kitchens, 6 bedrooms, hardwoods, gumwood trim, 2 car garage with a separate shop in the back, etc.). I felt comfortable walking up to Dewey at night (not sure if I'd do that, now).

Young families in the neighborhood were leaving in droves by '00, which is unfortunate because it used to be a really nice neighborhood. One couple we know bought the house on Flower City and still live there, and they changed it back to a single family house, although its value has declined some (it had already declined 30% or so through the 90's). They bought it for $63K(!).

"Maplewood" in its current incarnation has the potential to be an urban jewel, but, geography, a lack of jobs closeby (about 1/2 of the neighborhood worked at Kodak, years ago), its image, and crime are keeping folks from investing. Slum lords started moving in during the late 70's and into the 80's, such that at least 20% of the houses in the 10th Ward are multiple dwellings, and at least 35% of the total are rental properties, which can be a downer. There are quite a few vacant ones there, too, these days. I used to dabble in real estate in Rochester, so my head is filled with all kinds of needless stats like these.

-

[Salmanal]

Originally Posted by OverTaxedInNY

If you want diversity, move to Greece. We have everyone from Italians to blacks to Puerto Ricans to Asians. I own a home just down the road from the Delta Sonic on W Ridge, literally 3 mins down the road from you, and I have a Puerto Rican family on one side and what I think is some sort of Muslim black family on the other side. They have weird accents and dress kinda funny, I still have yet to make out what their ethnic background is. Whatever the case is, theyre ****ty parents with loud kids who seem to do whatever they want. Their toddler rides his bike in the middle of the road, they play in their minivan with the keys in it and stand on the gas pedal making it bounce off the rev limiter, crap like that. Im hoping they get foreclosed on at some point and need to move, because theyre ****ty neighbors.

The PR family is nice, only complaints is the mother will sit outside on her step and talk on her cell phone yabbering away in spanish, and theyll sometimes blast PR music for the whole neighborhood to hear, but I try to ignore it. Their kids came to our house on Halloween and spoke spanish to my wife, which I thought was bull$hit, but whatever. I'm only 27 but Im kinda old school in that I believe in speaking English in public. But thats just me.

Honestly dude, you need to look away from this whole segregation/diversity thing. This is real life, it is what it is. Whites in Rochester are wealthier than black and other minority groups. We have more money to afford better homes in better neighborhoods. Why would I want to live in a crap hole neighborhood if I can afford better, especially if it means preserving the safety of my family. There were 2 shootings on Halloween night in the city, definitely not something that makes me think "man, maybe I should think about diversifying my life and live in the city."

This reads as though you have not experienced anything outside of
you own "safe" haven, U.S.A., Mainland. Try visiting Hawaii, or the place
that speaks as much Spanish as English, Puerto Rico. Better yet, visit rural
China and use a [non-existent] toilet. Read the book, "there's no
toilet paper on the road less Traveled." There are places in the US that
have many cultures living in the sames cities, even neighborhoods,
and the streets are clean without the cultural "bickering" one finds
in cities on the East Coast. California has some very clean areas
housing several cultures, and they are relatively safe. L.A. is
not included here. I attended university in Philadelphia - hated it, but graduated. Honestly,
the responses I received to this post makes me think Rochester may not work for me.
Maybe the suburbs? I have time to ponder this.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Salmanal

This reads as though you have not experienced anything outside of
you own "safe" haven, U.S.A., Mainland. Try visiting Hawaii, or the place
that speaks as much Spanish as English, Puerto Rico. Better yet, visit rural
China and use a [non-existent] toilet. Read the book, "there's no
toilet paper on the road less Traveled." There are places in the US that
have many cultures living in the sames cities, even neighborhoods,
and the streets are clean without the cultural "bickering" one finds
in cities on the East Coast. California has some very clean areas
housing several cultures, and they are relatively safe. L.A. is
not included here. I attended university in Philadelphia - hated it, but graduated. Honestly,
the responses I received to this post makes me think Rochester may not work for me.
Maybe the suburbs? I have time to ponder this.

Just like every place it depends on where you are in the city of Rochester. You might actually like the East side neighborhoods, Charlotte or maybe a Swillburg area, among other neighborhoods. Welcome to Swillburg!
Welcome to Rochester's East End - Rochester's East End Rocks!
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*Charlotte Community in Rochester, NY

If you go suburban, I think Brighton might be your cup of tea.

[proulxfamily]

It gets pretty mentally exhausting, trying to parse words for their actual meaning. "Diverse" is supposed to mean

Main Entry: di·verse
Pronunciation: \dī-ˈvərs, də-ˈ, ˈdī-ˌ\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English divers, diverse, from Anglo-French & Latin; Anglo-French divers, from Latin diversus, from past participle of divertere
Date: 14th century

1 : differing from one another : unlike <people with diverse interests>
2 : composed of distinct or unlike elements or qualities <a diverse population> synonyms see different

Diverse doesn't mean black. It's extremely agitating to see posters trying to be PC by calling primarily [insert ethnicity here] neighborhoods "diverse." If it's primarily a black neighborhood, call it that. If it's a primarily Puerto Rican or other Latin Amercian ethnicity, call.it.that.

Diverse seems to have two meanings- either code for the non-white population or the actual meaning of being an area of DIFFERENT kinds of people. A black neighborhood isn't diverse. A white neighborhood isn't diverse. A suburban housing development or trailer park isn't diverse.

An area that you can't classify as "mostly... sort of people", because they're so varied- THAT is diversity.

A violent area that is primarily one race/ethnicity isn't "diverse", it's just violent.

A neighborhood of academics isn't diverse, though it *may* be welcoming to diversity.

Diversity is a *quality*, not code for racial tension. Please, don't abuse it. Besides being frustrating to those trying to understand the true meaning of the post, I'm sure it's confusing to outsiders. They have no idea where they should relocate because "diverse" could mean anything.

[mycrows]

Originally Posted by proulxfamily

Diverse seems to have two meanings- either code for the non-white population or the actual meaning of being an area of DIFFERENT kinds of people. A black neighborhood isn't diverse. A white neighborhood isn't diverse. A suburban housing development or trailer park isn't diverse.

An area that you can't classify as "mostly... sort of people", because they're so varied- THAT is diversity.

A violent area that is primarily one race/ethnicity isn't "diverse", it's just violent.

A neighborhood of academics isn't diverse, though it *may* be welcoming to diversity.

Diversity is a *quality*, not code for racial tension. Please, don't abuse it. Besides being frustrating to those trying to understand the true meaning of the post, I'm sure it's confusing to outsiders. They have no idea where they should relocate because "diverse" could mean anything.

All reasonable (if pedantically presented) points. But after a quick rescan of this thread, I didn't see anyone making the kind of misleading comments you're railing against.

Did any of the posters here portray a violent, majority Black or majority Latino neighborhood as "diverse"? In my experience, the conflation of "diversity" with "violent ghetto" is less often a misguided attempt at being politically correct, and more often a way to express a kind of covert racism. For example, I sometimes hear people who fear the Black neighborhoods of Rochester sarcastically calling them "diverse," as though the endemic violence of "the crescent" was a demonstration of the failure of "diversity." (See OverTaxedinNY's post about how the violence of the city discourages him from "diversifying" his life with a move to a city neighborhood.)

Maybe you're just confused about the demographics and crime data of the Rochester neighborhoods we're talking about. Maplewood, for example, is majority White and has relatively low crime.

P.S. Just in case I'm not being clear, I'd be the last person to deny the staggering ethnic and economic segregation of the Rochester area. However, I think this regional issue should be approached as a challenge rather than a burden (which is how the original poster presents it).

[proulxfamily]

I happened upon this thread after a morning of reading frustrating "black/PR/poor immigrant areas = diverse" posts... and just posted here, as I felt. lol - I apologize if it isn't applicable to the areas you mention. I'm not familiar with Rochester but after reading "diverse" all morning on other boards (allthewhile knowing that it wasn't being used properly for those areas) and then seeing it all over here, I was thoroughly confused.

Good to know that isn't the case in this thread! And I apologize that this board is the one where I saw more "diverse" all over the place, couldn't figure out if these places were *actually* diverse or not, and just dumped my frustration out here. <feeling sheepish>