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Old 10-17-2013, 12:34 AM
 
Location: Ohio
13,900 posts, read 11,002,816 times
Reputation: 7243

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
Well first you accuse me of not living on a farm and
taking strolls around them and making conclusions and then you say that it may
be different elsewhere but around where you are it is not....
I'm not accusing you of anything. The way you talk it doesn't seem as if you live on a farm. Do You?

Quote:
I said, you have to live near a decent sized market - having a farm within an
hour of a large metro area would do. That's the case here, there tons of YOUNG
people without pensions farming on small farms (5-20 acres) and making a living.
They are not rich but they seem happy to me. Granted, the culture in the city is
"green", even the food carts advertise organic, grass fed, free range etc. But,
it is doable and everyone who says it is not - does not know how to do it.
Do you know all these peoples situations intimately? Maybe they do collect pensions for all you know. Maybe they have outside jobs.

Do you live on a farm? The answer is important.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
We would be surviving.
I retired on pension at 42.
If you retired at 42 then you must have some money. Average people don't retire at 42, and are lucky if they can manage to do it at 65.

Quote:
My Dw holds a p/t job, most of her income and my pension is going toward our
solar electric system. Not our living expenses. If she was not working, then we
would not be installing a solar electric system.
She wants us to be disconnected from the electric company before she quits
working in town.

If I did not have a pension, then either of us could work for minimum-wage in
town, and we would at the same place. A family only really needs one
minimum-wage job in town to support themselves, during farm start-up.
I bought forest land in '05. We are converting it to food production. There
is a learning curve, and it takes time to get production levels up.
As I already explained the Apprentice/Journeymen are on established farms, so

they do not have this start-up process, that I am going through.
What is your primary income, that is all I really want to know. Does it come from your farm?
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Ohio
13,900 posts, read 11,002,816 times
Reputation: 7243
I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think we can all agree that it isn't something you can just jump in to and be successful. It takes a lot of hard work and a little bit of luck, and then, you have to decide if all that work you're going to do is worth the payout, which is peanuts. You're not going to get rich. You might manage to "live" but your not going to get rich. People with small-scale farms these days do it because they like the lifestyle, and thats what it is, a lifestyle. if you just want the lifestyle, then go for it. However, if you're happier to punch a clock and go home, you better think twice before trying to start a farm.
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:01 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,577,507 times
Reputation: 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think we can all agree that it isn't something you can just jump in to and be successful. It takes a lot of hard work and a little bit of luck, and then, you have to decide if all that work you're going to do is worth the payout, which is peanuts. You're not going to get rich. You might manage to "live" but your not going to get rich. People with small-scale farms these days do it because they like the lifestyle, and thats what it is, a lifestyle. if you just want the lifestyle, then go for it. However, if you're happier to punch a clock and go home, you better think twice before trying to start a farm.
You could have said this at the beginning, there is nothing new in your revelations in this post. They do, however, contradict your previous posts where you claim it is impossible. Then you moved on to say that it is impossible in your neck of the woods. Now it is not impossible.

Yes, it is a lifestyle but saying that is like saying that having a job in the city and living in the suburbs is a lifestyle. They are all lifestyles, we all choose what we want to do.

No, I do not farm for a living. However, I do have small acreage I live on that I have slowly made self-sufficient - solar, bees, large veggie gardens, vineyard etc. In 5 years I will farm for a living, WITHOUT a pension.
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,151 posts, read 50,332,412 times
Reputation: 19856
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
... If you retired at 42 then you must have some money. Average people don't retire at 42, and are lucky if they can manage to do it at 65.
I served 20+ years on Active Duty in the US Navy [mostly on submarines]. I built-up some investment portfolio, but lost it in the crash and had to file bankruptcy in '09. Leaving us flat broke.

What money we have now is primarily from farming, then my pension and my Dw's p/t job. Neither of us are old enough for SS.

We want to be disconnected from the electric company and to have solar-thermal going, before my Dw quits working in town. Most of our off-site income [her job and and my pension] is going toward our solar system. As you should know, the biggest expenses are electricity and fuel. Get rid of the biggest bills and then your needs are much less.

I am active in the Grange, Lodge, church, and with MOFGA [our regional OC agency]. I am also on the 'board of directors' for our county Cooperative Extension Office. None of these other things pay me a dime. Frequently they cost me cash from my pocket.

Starting-up a new farm can be costly. I built our house myself [with exception of the foundation and well], fencing, planting an orchard, clearing woodlot, etc. We came here with two children still living home. In our case, we have needed the off-site income to help speed up the process of the farm becoming self-supporting.

Of our off-site income streams, mine is the larger. It holds at about minimum-wage and my Dw's has been p/t.

We think that once our solar-power/thermal setup is complete, and a few other small projects, then we will be able to stop her working entirely. In our case, our plans differ from most other farms we see around here, requiring more cash because we wanted to be off-grid. A family only really needs one minimum-wage job in town to support themselves, during farm start-up.

As I have tried to explain, every week at market, I rub elbows with other farmers who have been doing this much longer and who do not have the benefit of pension and p/t job income that I have. Among the things I see here, I see the Apprentice/Journeymen program in operation. Through the various organizations I am member of, I know many young people who are interested in farming, and some who are getting into farming.

Just this past winter, I was attending monthly potlucks with a 'permaculture' group nearby. They are on-campus at a State Uni. The State Uni offers a 'Sustainable Ag' major, the permaculture group draws in a lot of Ag students. The Uni professors do not tell their students anything about this regions's Apprentice / Journeymen program. I shared what I know of the program with Ag students. In February there were 150+ farms listed in the network with apprentice openings. Two of those Ag students, who had no previous knowledge that the Apprentice / Journeymen program existed, applied to farms and were accepted.

I have kept in contact with both of those Ag students-turn-Apprentices over the course of the summer. One has returned to Uni to further build student loan debt, and one decided to stay in the program. She will apprentice again in 2014, and hopefully in 2015 she will either be a Farm Manager, or else she will partner with someone else and be on their own farm that year.



Quote:
... What is your primary income, that is all I really want to know. Does it come from your farm?
Yes. Our primary source of support is from our farm.
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:22 AM
 
3,438 posts, read 4,837,964 times
Reputation: 5408
No one is questioning your valuable info on how others are getting started w/o money .

Myself ( and others) object to using yourself as an example because the way you got started is not going to be the way the young people with no money get started.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,151 posts, read 50,332,412 times
Reputation: 19856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy52 View Post
No one is questioning your valuable info on how others are getting started w/o money .

Myself (and others) object to using yourself as an example because the way you got started is not going to be the way the young people with no money get started.
I understand. I apologize, I clearly misspoke.



I am getting started in farming with a $20k/year income. So as you say, I do have money.

I see others around me who are not as loaded as I am. Being sometimes submerged into their culture, I forget myself.

I apologize.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,900 posts, read 11,002,816 times
Reputation: 7243
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
You could have said this at the beginning, there is
nothing new in your revelations in this post. They do, however, contradict your
previous posts where you claim it is impossible. Then you moved on to say that
it is impossible in your neck of the woods. Now it is not impossible.
I can't recall ever saying that it was completely impossible...... Care to quote where I said that? What post #?
Quote:
Yes, it is a lifestyle but saying that is like saying that having a job in
the city and living in the suburbs is a lifestyle. They are all lifestyles, we
all choose what we want to do.
True enough
Quote:
No, I do not farm for a living
I knew it....

Quote:
However, I do have small acreage I live on that I have slowly made
self-sufficient - solar, bees, large veggie gardens, vineyard etc. In 5 years I
will farm for a living, WITHOUT a pension.
I wish you a lot of luck, I truly do.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,900 posts, read 11,002,816 times
Reputation: 7243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
I served 20+ years on Active Duty in the US Navy [mostly on submarines]. I built-up some investment portfolio, but lost it in the crash and had to file bankruptcy in '09. Leaving us flat broke.

What money we have now is primarily from farming, then my pension and my Dw's p/t job. Neither of us are old enough for SS.

We want to be disconnected from the electric company and to have solar-thermal going, before my Dw quits working in town. Most of our off-site income [her job and and my pension] is going toward our solar system. As you should know, the biggest expenses are electricity and fuel. Get rid of the biggest bills and then your needs are much less.

I am active in the Grange, Lodge, church, and with MOFGA [our regional OC agency]. I am also on the 'board of directors' for our county Cooperative Extension Office. None of these other things pay me a dime. Frequently they cost me cash from my pocket.

Starting-up a new farm can be costly. I built our house myself [with exception of the foundation and well], fencing, planting an orchard, clearing woodlot, etc. We came here with two children still living home. In our case, we have needed the off-site income to help speed up the process of the farm becoming self-supporting.

Of our off-site income streams, mine is the larger. It holds at about minimum-wage and my Dw's has been p/t.

We think that once our solar-power/thermal setup is complete, and a few other small projects, then we will be able to stop her working entirely. In our case, our plans differ from most other farms we see around here, requiring more cash because we wanted to be off-grid. A family only really needs one minimum-wage job in town to support themselves, during farm start-up.

As I have tried to explain, every week at market, I rub elbows with other farmers who have been doing this much longer and who do not have the benefit of pension and p/t job income that I have. Among the things I see here, I see the Apprentice/Journeymen program in operation. Through the various organizations I am member of, I know many young people who are interested in farming, and some who are getting into farming.

Just this past winter, I was attending monthly potlucks with a 'permaculture' group nearby. They are on-campus at a State Uni. The State Uni offers a 'Sustainable Ag' major, the permaculture group draws in a lot of Ag students. The Uni professors do not tell their students anything about this regions's Apprentice / Journeymen program. I shared what I know of the program with Ag students. In February there were 150+ farms listed in the network with apprentice openings. Two of those Ag students, who had no previous knowledge that the Apprentice / Journeymen program existed, applied to farms and were accepted.

I have kept in contact with both of those Ag students-turn-Apprentices over the course of the summer. One has returned to Uni to further build student loan debt, and one decided to stay in the program. She will apprentice again in 2014, and hopefully in 2015 she will either be a Farm Manager, or else she will partner with someone else and be on their own farm that year.





Yes. Our primary source of support is from our farm.
You're one of the success stories I guess. I would still caution anyone thinking of quitting their day job to start a farm to think twice. Maybe go to a local farm and ask if you can work for a few days and get an idea of what the day to day is like before making any moves and to consider all the financial drain that a start up farm takes.
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,490 posts, read 52,125,327 times
Reputation: 24647
I was cured of farming when I spent a couple of weeks as a teen filling a barn with green hay. My hands were so badly blistered they became infected. I simply quit. FWIW - The barn burned the next winter which was simple insurance fraud.
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Old 10-21-2013, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,900 posts, read 11,002,816 times
Reputation: 7243
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I was cured of farming when I spent a couple of weeks as a teen filling a barn with green hay. My hands were so badly blistered they became infected. I simply quit. FWIW - The barn burned the next winter which was simple insurance fraud.
>>>>> gloves <<<<<

.......
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