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Old 12-26-2014, 03:59 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,577,163 times
Reputation: 1458

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
Forget the term "hobby farm" for the moment as SUB has made that point, but according to the USDA across the us there are 2,109,363 farms. 85% are under that $250K mark. Somehow these people keep hanging on. While I respect the educated people at US Davis, that is a lot of people getting by with under the 250K figure.
Subsidies and extreme poverty? Add a waitressing job in town for the wife, no health insurance for anyone, some gamin gof the system nobody wants to talk about and you got a great existence going
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Old 12-26-2014, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,237 times
Reputation: 217
LOL!
What world do you live in where low or middle class wives do not have to work? Because Id like to live there.
And why does she has to be a waitress? Why not veterinarian? Or for that matter a truck driver or a carpenter?
A little sexiest are we?

And no health insurance? your kidding right?
medicade
obamacare
medi-cal
CICP
SHIP
FAMIS
LIHP
CHIP
Supplemental Security Income
Eyecare America
Foundation for Health Coverage Education
Children with Special Health Care Needs
Hearnow
National Association of Free Clinics
National Council on Aging / National Center for Senior Benefits Outreach and Enrollment
National Dental Lifeline Network
The National Institute For Health (NIH)
New Eyes For The Needy
Partnership For Prescription Assistance
Patient Advocate Foundation
RX Aid Prescription Assistance
Hill-Burton Program
Kid and Teen Medical Coverage Options

I am not even close to linking all the various options! Seriously tell me more about how your not even trying to find healthcare?
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Old 12-26-2014, 07:22 PM
 
9,145 posts, read 8,410,527 times
Reputation: 19907
Quote:
So what is the typical survival rate of a start up farm?
"2007 ARMS Survey analysis of linked Census data showed that 45% of farms and ranches started between 1978 and 1982 survived the first 5-9 years."

The US bureau of labor statistics show that 37% to 54% of small business will survive between 5 to 9 years respectively.

So according to these statistics, the USDA is correct in that start up farms are on par with a typical business for survival.
#1 reason that any business or farm fails is, "The lack of sufficient capital to carry it till it becomes profitable".

That means, the owners cannot keep feeding it with additional capital till it becomes profitable. And the fact that a start up business or farm lasts for 5 to 9 years, does not mean it survived under the same ownership as the ones that started it. In many cases, the ones that started it ran out of money and either brought in partners, or sold out to someone that continued the operation till it became profitable.

The OP said right up front they do not have any amount of capital to start a farm. Without capital you cannot turn any business or farm profitable before you run out of capital to set it up, and keep it going till it becomes profitable.
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Old 12-26-2014, 07:48 PM
 
9,145 posts, read 8,410,527 times
Reputation: 19907
Quote:
So what is the typical survival rate of a start up farm?
"2007 ARMS Survey analysis of linked Census data showed that 45% of farms and ranches started between 1978 and 1982 survived the first 5-9 years."

The US bureau of labor statistics show that 37% to 54% of small business will survive between 5 to 9 years respectively.

So according to these statistics, the USDA is correct in that start up farms are on par with a typical business for survival.
#1 reason that any business or farm fails is, "The lack of sufficient capital to carry it till it becomes profitable".

That means, the owners cannot keep feeding it with additional capital till it becomes profitable. And the fact that a start up business or farm lasts for 5 to 9 years, does not mean it survived under the same ownership as the ones that started it. In many cases, the ones that started it ran out of money and either brought in partners, or sold out to someone that continued the operation till it became profitable.

The OP said right up front they do not have any amount of capital to start a farm. Without capital you cannot turn any business or farm profitable before you run out of capital to set it up, and keep it going till it becomes profitable.
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Old 12-26-2014, 08:55 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,577,163 times
Reputation: 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
LOL!
What world do you live in where low or middle class wives do not have to work? Because Id like to live there.
And why does she has to be a waitress? Why not veterinarian? Or for that matter a truck driver or a carpenter?
A little sexiest are we?
Not really. It's just reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
And no health insurance? your kidding right?
I am not even close to linking all the various options! Seriously tell me more about how your not even trying to find healthcare?
Are all those options for free? 'Cause last I checked they all cost a pretty penny. So, you have to be making some kind of a serious profit to afford $500+/month in premiums. Add children to that and goooooood luck!

Even with serious monthly premiums, the deductibles are high and can easily wipe your little farm out in case of serious illness or injury. So basically we are talking bare survival, no steady income and a prayer to keep illness away. No thanks, for that kind of standard of living you can move to Somalia...
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Old 12-26-2014, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,237 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
#1 reason that any business or farm fails is, "The lack of sufficient capital to carry it till it becomes profitable".

That means, the owners cannot keep feeding it with additional capital till it becomes profitable. And the fact that a start up business or farm lasts for 5 to 9 years, does not mean it survived under the same ownership as the ones that started it. In many cases, the ones that started it ran out of money and either brought in partners, or sold out to someone that continued the operation till it became profitable.

The OP said right up front they do not have any amount of capital to start a farm. Without capital you cannot turn any business or farm profitable before you run out of capital to set it up, and keep it going till it becomes profitable.
You can. I have linked several small starup success stories.

Besides the OP said they had a small nest egg. They also have a mortgage. Depending on where it is and what it is, it could go a long way.

Thats a one up that a farm and a few other businesses have over a regular business like a restaurant or a hot dog stand. Your home and business purchase price are combined.

A typical home where my california home is, sells between 500k and 800k. It is in the lower end of the middle class area. So that plus a typical 401k can go a long way. Then add in the various and innumerable loans and grants available to startup aggro if you have any decent credit, you can get a long way with that. And even if someone did not live in a more expensive like California area, buying a farm can be cheap if you shop around. Check this out.

Farm land, lots, ranches and farms for auction

We actually have a farm out here near my California home (15 to 20 minutes away) that is on the market.

6140 Alhambra Valley Road Martinez, California, United States
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Alham...=photos_stream
Alhambra Valley Ranch

The owner is a friend of ours and one hell of a cool dude. He is retiring and put his 58 acre ranch up on the market.
Now, he is asking for just under 3mil. That being said, the homes on this property would easily sell for 600k each, and there are 3 homes on the property and the farm is currently earning its keep.

They net approx. 30k to 60k a year after paying the owners a very substantial wage and providing for the various rescue animals. If you call them and provide qualifying financials they will discuss the books as they stand.

Tom Powers the owner, purchased the farm for 700k like 15 years ago. It had a small vineyard one house and a few other basics.

Anyway, dont take my word for it, just read up on it, i listed the websites.


Point being, a farm can be much cheaper to buy than most businesses and a heck of a lot cheaper to start than many (if you think a farm is expensive to start, try building your own manufacturing plant). Sure, you may lose it all, but that's business.

To date i have linked over 15 stories of small cost startups that have done well without huge startup capitol. Here is another.
Small Biz Success Story: Mycoterra Organic Mushroom Farm
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Old 12-26-2014, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,237 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
Not really. It's just reality.



Are all those options for free? 'Cause last I checked they all cost a pretty penny. So, you have to be making some kind of a serious profit to afford $500+/month in premiums. Add children to that and goooooood luck!

Even with serious monthly premiums, the deductibles are high and can easily wipe your little farm out in case of serious illness or injury. So basically we are talking bare survival, no steady income and a prayer to keep illness away. No thanks, for that kind of standard of living you can move to Somalia...

You obviously know nothing anything about Somalia or you would not have compared it to your example.

Your reality and mine are much different.
Maybe where you are women are stuck in a patriarchal dichotomy by nature of the location or by choice. But in the rest of the country women can get real jobs. I hear they are even allowed to vote now! My fiance is a veterinary technician, my sisters are -1.Business major UCSB and works in some cubical somewhere. -2. Security theft prevention regional manager for target. -3. loan officer. My mom is a real estate agent and notary. Heck, even my ex wife was a Safeway manager and her mom hauled aggregate for a truck company.


And for medical-

Did you research even one of those? Or did you just start typing for the sake of typing?
I guess the name "National Association of Free Clinics" caused you to think it was exceptionally expensive??

90% of what I posted was free. Like CHIP. Which is basically free healthcare for children of low income family's. My self and my sisters were on it when we were kids.

I know google is tough to use, but I have faith in you.
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Old 12-26-2014, 10:21 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
23,492 posts, read 41,085,731 times
Reputation: 25068
Quote:
What's the most profitable type of small-scale farming?
After reading this thread, No one has to wonder about country hicks / irrational remarks / biased attitudes.

Answer is fleeting What's the most profitable type of small-scale farming?

Certainly varies by region.

Doubt many here are trying to be successfully producing at CA property values.

Even in affordable Left Coast WA, I got far more revenue from my small chicken operation than my specialty fruit business. Chickens were more predictable too!. Never could have swung payments on $600k+ for a small operation.

Fortunately, I grew up on a real farm, so... BTDT and will repeat as possible.

Most my peers who maintained smaller operations worked a night shift job for healthcare / grocery money.

I still keep a 'J-O-B' for qualifying for L-O-A-N-S.

Free or affordable healthcare? Not in the USA. I will be uninsured, and fly to Asia till eligible for Medicare (if it exists by then). I had 3 friends die in the last 2 yrs cuz they had no insurance and ran out of available funds to subside US medical industry. (Which had taken their farms for previous treatment expenses)
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Old 12-26-2014, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,237 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Free or affordable healthcare? Not in the USA. I will be uninsured, and fly to Asia till eligible for Medicare (if it exists by then). I had 3 friends die in the last 2 yrs cuz they had no insurance and ran out of available funds to subside US medical industry. (Which had taken their farms for previous treatment expenses)
Yes, I just imagined all of these programs up and their phone numbers and websites and call centers. No point in reading or researching any of them, they simply do not exist because you said they do not.
And you post about ignorance! Thats a riot.
I know google is hard. You and "LordyLordy" should help each other out.


Go ahead and tell me none of your friends could qualify for ANY of the following programs or clinics. And please tell me HOW they didnt. Please. I would love to hear it.





Medicaid

In all states, Medicaid provides free or low-cost care for some low-income people, families and children, pregnant women, the elderly, and people with disabilities.
In some states the program covers all adults below a certain income level.
Medicaid programs must follow federal guidelines, but coverage and costs may be different from state to state. Some Medicaid programs pay for your care directly. Others use private insurance companies to provide Medicaid coverage.


Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP)

In all states, CHIP provides low-cost health coverage to children in families that earn too much money to qualify for Medicaid. In some states, CHIP covers parents and pregnant women.
Each state works closely with its state Medicaid program.
In many cases, if you qualify for Medicaid your children will qualify for either Medicaid or CHIP.


Dental Services and Care - Thousands of dentists around the nation provide the low income, people with medical conditions and disabled with free dental care. Over 3,000 locations and centers are located across the country and participate. Learn more.

EyeCare America - This assistance program is offered by the American Academy of Ophthalmology and it provides free eye care to senior citizens, children, individuals with diabetes, and people who may be at risk for glaucoma. 877-887-6327

Hearing aids - The number of resources that provide financial support for these is limited. To help fill that gap, some non-profits offer discounts or financial assistance for hearing aids, telephones, and other related health care equipment. There are also a couple different state government agencies, including a few Medicaid programs, that offer discounts as well. More on programs for hearing aids.

HealthWell Foundation - This non-profit organization provides financial assistance and/or cash grants to help people pay for their health care costs and medical bills. Even if you have health insurance you may be eligible to still receive help as they may pay some or all of your health care costs. In effect qualified applicants will receive free health care from the foundation. More on the HealthWell Foundation.

Knights Templar Eye Foundation - The organization administers a health care assistance program provides the uninsured with grants for eye surgery and check ups. (847) 490-3838

Mission of Mercy - This is a non-profit charity organization that offers patients free prescription medications and medical care. Some of the services offered can also include dental care, check ups, and more. The charity can be reached at 717-642-9062.

New Eyes for the Needy - Provides vouchers for free eyeglasses to the low income and uninsured. Clients can also receive information on how they can meet other vision needs. Read more.

Non-profit organizations - Many charity and non-profits can provide financial assistance for paying health care premiums, deductibles, prescription medications, and other health care expenses. Click here to find a listing of national non-profits that offer medical care. If a group doesn’t have financial assistance for you, many will provide suggestions or referrals on where people can turn to.

Prescription drugs for free - A wide variety of programs exist that provide patients with free medicines and prescription drugs. Get assistance from the local, state, and federal government, pharmaceutical companies, patient assistance programs, and more. Find free prescription drug programs.

Sight For Students - Provides free eye exams and glasses to children 18 years and younger whose families can’t afford to pay for vision care. Thousands of students and children benefit from the Sights for Students program every year. Dial 1-888-290-4964

VisionUSA - This organization provides free eye care to low income families as well as the uninsured who work at least part-time. People need to have some type of job when applying for aid. More on free eye exams.

Walgreens - Walgreens provides free health care and medical checkups to people who use its in store clinics. The person seeking medical help must have recently been laid off, and they need to also have been a customer of WalGreens. More.




State and local health care clinics - Many local and state governments support a wide variety of health care clinics that provide free health care to residents. It can range from free dental care, to prescription drugs, to mental health services. Community clinics and health care centers are located in most towns and cities.

State laws ensure charity health care - Several states have laws in place that ensure residents are provided heavily discounted or free health care from local hospitals if they meet certain income standards. The regulations also ensure fair billing practices for services incurred. Since many hospitals receive government funding from Medicare or Medicaid, they are often required to provide some form of services to all patients, and can’t return people away. Read more.
Free medical and dental care from clinics

No matter where you live, there is probably some type of health care center or community clinic near you. While each and every location will offer different services, and have qualifications that need to be met by patients, in general many of them offer some type of sliding fee or variable rate billing. So individuals with very low incomes, or no health or dental insurance, will often qualify for free medical or dental care. If you have a more moderate income, or limited insurance, then you may need to pay a small fee or just what you can afford to pay towards your bills.

Community Clinics and Health Care Centers - Every year millions of people use a community clinic in their area to receive free or low cost, yet high quality medical or dental care. Some centers offer specialty and more complicated services too. Depending on a patients income and other qualifications, some care will be free, while some people may need to pay a minimal fee. This variable billing is known as a sliding fee scale. No one is ever turned away, regardless of their income. Get more information on free clinics and find locations in your state.

Dental Clinics - In addition to the health care centers referenced above, there are numerous non-profit and government supported clinics that focus on offering dental care to the low income and uninsured. A large number of services and assistance programs are provided by these dental clinics.

Those are just some examples of the centers available. Find a more extensive list, and be sure to review health care assistance programs offered by your state and local governments.

State programs

Since your in Washington here is a state program.

Washington Apple Health
In Washington State, Medicaid is called Washington Apple Health. Coverage is free for those who qualify. Find out more about Apple Health. Apply for Apple Health online at the Washington Healthplanfinder.

Here is website that will find you a state clinic in any state.



Here is a list of Washington state clinics-

Free and Charitable Clinics

Benton-Grace Clinic in Kennewick offers medical, dental and chronic healthcare, along with pharmacy services and prescription assistance. All services are provided free of charge.
Chelan

Entiat Regional Health Clinic in Entiat provides urgent and chronic care services on a walk-in basis.

Upper Valley Free Clinic in Leavenworth is a program of Upper Valley MEND. Upper Valley Free Clinic provides free medical care for urgent health needs on most Monday evenings. Other health needs are referred to appropriate area care providers for chronic, emergent and specialty care.

Lighthouse Clinic in East Wenatchee provides basic healthcare, including dental extractions, for low income and homeless individuals at a nominal fee.
Clallam

Dungeness Valley Health and Wellness Clinic in Sequim offers urgent and chronic medical care, health education, wellness and pharmacy assistance at no charge.

Volunteers in Medicine of the Olympics in Port Angeles offers free medical, dental, mental healthcare and specialty care referrals to adults who live and work on the Olympic Peninsula.
Clark

Battleground HealthCare in Battleground provides free chronic medical care and dental care by appointment only.

Free Clinic of SW Washington in Vancouver offers chronic and urgent medical care, dental, vision and pharmacy assistance for children and adults. All services are provided at no charge. The Free Clinic of SW Washington also runs Project Access Clark County, providing specialty care referrals and case management.

New Heights Clinic in Vancouver provides free chronic medical care and dental care by appointment only.

Project Access Clark County in Vancouver provides referrals and case management for specialty medical care.
Cowlitz-Cowlitz Free Medical Clinic in Longview provides walk-in urgent medical care as well as referrals for chronic medical and vision care to adult residents of Washington and Oregon.
Jefferson

JC Mash has locations in Port Townsend and Port Hadlock, and provides free medical care, prescription assistance, mental health and chemical dependency counseling and referrals.
King

Christ Community Free Clinic in Auburn provides walk-in medical and dental care free of charge.

Cornerstone Medical Services in Federal Way provides primary care, naturopathic medicine, acupuncture, chiropractic, massage therapy, limited labs and social service referrals to low-income, uninsured individuals.

Medical Teams International Located in Bellevue, MTI serves King, Pierce, Snohomish, Skagit and Cowlitz Counties with mobile dental services for children and adults.

New Hope Health Center in Tukwila provides walk-in chronic and acute medical care and counseling services.

Project Access Northwest provides referrals for specialty medical and dental care, as well as case management of that care for low income, under and uninsured King, Kitsap and Snohomish County residents.

Puget Sound Christian Clinic in Seattle provides medical, dental and mental healthcare to low income, uninsured patients.

Rotacare Free Clinic Bellevue provides free medical care, health screenings and medical referral every Saturday on a walk-in basis.

Rotacare Free Clinic Lake City is located in North of Seattle and offers free medical care once a week on a walk-in basis.

Rotacare Free Clinic Renton in Renton provides free medical care every Saturday on a walk-in basis.

Seattle Union Gospel Mission in Seattle provides free narcotic-free dental care, including dentures, to low income patients by appointment.

Swedish Community Specialty Clinic in Seattle offers advanced medical and dental care at no cost to the patient.

Kitsap-West Sound Free Clinic in Silverdale is a free mobile medical clinic that serves many locations in Kitsap County.

Kittitas-Open Door Health Clinic, formerly known as the Ellensburg Community Health Clinic, has locations in Ellensburg, Yakima and Cle Elum. Open Door Health Clinic offers walk-in medical care, mental health counseling, care for diabetes and hypertensio and nutrition education.

Lewis-Health and Hope Medical Outreach in Centralia offers basic and urgent medical care to the underserved of Lewis County.

Nez Perce (Idaho)-Snake River Community Clinic in Lewiston, Idaho provides free medical care to patients residing in Washingon and Idaho.

Pierce-Mom and Me Mobile Medical Clinic in Buckley will provide mobile medical care. This clinic is not yet operational.

Neighborhood Clinic in Tacoma offers free urgent medical care to patients who cannot afford or access healthcare.

Pierce County Project Access in Tacoma provides referrals to specialty medical and primary care.

Trinity Neighborhood Health Center in Tacoma provides free medical, nursing and pharmaceutical support during walk-in clinic hours once per week.

Snohomish-Safe Harbor Free Clinic in Stanwood provides free urgent and chronic medical care as well as dental services.
Spokane

Christ Clinic in Spokane provides acute and chronic primary care, simple tests, prescription assistance, immunizations, counseling and sports physicals. Christ Clinic charges a nominal fee based on a sliding scale.

House of Charity Outreach in Spokane provides medical care and social services free of charge.

Thurston-Amahoro House in Olympia offers hospice services for homeless individuals.

Olympia Union Gospel Mission provides free dental and vision care to low-income and homeless patients.

The Olympia Free Clinic in downtown Olympia offers free basic medical care on a drop-in basis and behavioral healthcare as part of the Mental Health Access Program.

Walla Walla-SOS Health Services of Walla Walla in College Place offers medical care, non-narcotic prescription assistance, counseling and referral services to low income patients free of charge.

Whatcom-Whatcom Alliance for Health Advancement in Bellingham runs Whatcom Project Access, which provides specialty medical and dental care and case management by referral only.

Yakima-Yakima Union Gospel Mission Clinic provides acute and chronic medical, dental and mental health services.

Statewide-The Delta Dental SmileMobile provides dental care to low income children in areas of Washington in which dental access is particularly difficult.

I know google is hard. You and "LordyLordy" should help each other out.
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Old 12-27-2014, 07:09 AM
 
5,876 posts, read 5,358,268 times
Reputation: 17999
Hoooooo, lots of yapping going on here!

Anyway, the MOSES conference is in LaCrosse, WI February 26th - 28th. Hope to see some of you there! MOSES Organic Farming Conference | MOSES
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