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Old 12-27-2014, 07:13 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,577,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
You obviously know nothing anything about Somalia or you would not have compared it to your example.
It was supposed to be an exaggeration to make a point - read below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
Your reality and mine are much different.
Maybe where you are women are stuck in a patriarchal dichotomy by nature of the location or by choice. But in the rest of the country women can get real jobs. I hear they are even allowed to vote now! My fiance is a veterinary technician, my sisters are -1.Business major UCSB and works in some cubical somewhere. -2. Security theft prevention regional manager for target. -3. loan officer. My mom is a real estate agent and notary. Heck, even my ex wife was a Safeway manager and her mom hauled aggregate for a truck company.
We are talking small rural towns here. Not much possibility to be a middle class professional. Nobody says women cannot be any of these things in town - but that kind of defeats your story of whether it is possible to run/own a farm without much money. My wife is a veterinarian by the way ans contrary to popular belief they do not make that much money AND their hours are long and hard. Not to mention that it takes $100K+ in debt to get through vet school - that's a cost of a farm somewhere. In her case it was $120K to get the degree with a starting salary of $38K per year. Do you know what it feels like to get out of school saddled with the debt of a small mortgage? It took us 5-6 years to pay off that debt and only thanks to professional jobs in the city.

In any case, if your wife was a manager, lawyer, doctor - any professional that makes a good pay grade, then your question is not "can I run a small farm without money" but "can I run a small farm with a spouse who is pulling $100K/yr or more in town", no? Well, in the case of the latter the answer is "hell, yeah, who couldn't"

By the way, we consider ourselves to be good gardeners. We have professional jobs, we grow our own stuff and we have built our own things, sheds, hay storages, fencing for acres, solar installations etc. If you have a job in town, all of the aforementioned things are extra time and burden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
And for medical-

Did you research even one of those? Or did you just start typing for the sake of typing?
I guess the name "National Association of Free Clinics" caused you to think it was exceptionally expensive??

90% of what I posted was free. Like CHIP. Which is basically free healthcare for children of low income family's. My self and my sisters were on it when we were kids.

I know google is tough to use, but I have faith in you.
No need to be condescending. However, let's deconstruct your examples of free healthcare below:

Most of that crap is charity, to begin with. It is OK to accept charity once but not to live on it. Living on the charity of others makes you a FREELOADER. You should be able to pull your own weight and pay for your own medical insurance and expenses and take care of your own children's healthcare costs. In addition to these things being heavily discounted or free charity - they often offer substandard care, at least substandard to any good insurance plan your employer would provide, esp. the PPOs. The "free offer" also stops at more complicated cases that require real care such as surgeries, long-term expensive medications and a bunch of other procedures. Most of these free health-care things are meant as a temporary stop-gap measure for people who cannot afford insurance. Even Obamacare you quoted makes you purchase insurance and penalizes you if you don't. That insurance isn't cheap.

I personally do not believe that healthcare should be tied to employment. In fact, that's one of the things Obamacare tried to separate - anyone should be able to purchase insurance individually at prices that are discounted to appear as if the individual is a part of a larger pool. But try pricing a premium for a family - even for husband/wife combo. Ain't cheap unless it has a $10K deductible. In which case it is kind of useless (and it still sets you back $300+/month!). With children in the mix - even more expensive. So, imagine you are a small farmer and you are paying at least $300/month in obamacare with $10K deductible. You have a mortgage on your farm too, operating expenses etc. You get sick and need a $250K surgery. Even with your insurance you are still on the hook for at least $10K (usually much more). Where do you find the $10K? Borrow from friends, relatives, beg? No thanks - I have always paid for myself in life, never asked anyone for anything and never plan on doing so either.

I would also be in favor of free healthcare - FOR EVERYONE. There is no reason why I should bust my chops in a professional job to earn my healthcare while you choose your lifestyle in the field and you get it for free. Either we all pay for our own or it is free for everyone.

So, in conclusion: if you don't have a spouse with a high-powered job in town, you will be barely making ends meet, doing lots of backbreaking labor all day dependent on the whims of the weather, living month to month not knowing if you will have enough next month and you will be obtaining your immediate medical care on the good will of others. Any serious surgery or illness will still wipe you out. Throw into that the pressure of a possible mortgage to own your own farm - a mortgage that you have to pay every month or else.

I am honestly asking you: tell me how this is a good and healthy lifestyle. Maybe I am not understanding something here.

Last edited by LordyLordy; 12-27-2014 at 07:39 AM..
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Old 12-27-2014, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,346 times
Reputation: 217
Many rural small towns have banks, grocery stores veternary clinics ect where a job better than a waitress can be found. I know all about vets and my fiance works as a vet tech. She can find about $14 an hour anywhere in the US as a vet tech, in many places considerably higher. it is not a high caliber job, but usually comes with benefits and she can support her own end of the home, not the farm. No one said your spouse needed to support the farm herself, but in ANY relationship in the city, your spouse will be assisting in some of the bills/rent/food/ect. Why should a farm be any different?


Ok, forget the charities. There are dozens of free clinics in almost every state. All you have to do to qualify is make less than X amount of money. They are government or state funded clinics or program to assist the low income folks stay healthy. A lot of these clinics will even cover the cost of some pretty big surgery's. My point is that there are so many options, that you either live in the sticks without electricity, or or you are not trying. I posted a ton of source information, and you replied with your opinion instead of actual information, that gets irritating after awhile.



As I have proven many times with actual accounts or factual information with sources linked, that many small niche farms started with nothing and became successful. I will continue to link examples in every post to make a point. Also in my most recent reply to Oldtrader, i posted some very easy sources of revenue, your average American can use to start a farm. And since everyone is screaming about no medical I will continue to post links for free or low cost medical too.

Keep sending me problems, I will keep posting solutions.
Links:
cheap or free medical by state
Low Cost Health Insurance - Medical Insurance Plans by State

Successful small farm
10 Minutes With Kurt Timmermeister - Hobby Farms
Abbey Road: Working Farm and Bed-and-Breakfast - Hobby Farms

small farm resource and funding guide:
Farm Start-Up Resource Guide - Farm Aid
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Old 12-27-2014, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,346 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother View Post
Hoooooo, lots of yapping going on here!

Anyway, the MOSES conference is in LaCrosse, WI February 26th - 28th. Hope to see some of you there! MOSES Organic Farming Conference | MOSES
Thank you for the informative post 601halfdozen0theother.
All my cousins will be there, they live in Onalaska, and my oldest cousin works for Paul Dietmann.
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Old 12-27-2014, 04:01 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,577,403 times
Reputation: 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
Many rural small towns have banks, grocery stores veternary clinics ect where a job better than a waitress can be found. I know all about vets and my fiance works as a vet tech. She can find about $14 an hour anywhere in the US as a vet tech, in many places considerably higher. it is not a high caliber job, but usually comes with benefits and she can support her own end of the home, not the farm. No one said your spouse needed to support the farm herself, but in ANY relationship in the city, your spouse will be assisting in some of the bills/rent/food/ect. Why should a farm be any different?
A vet tech job does not require any particular education. There are CERTIFIED vet techs who have gone to 2 years of college and they get paid way more than $14/hr. In many places waitresses/waiters make more money than vet techs and they don't have to clean s*it all day and get bitten and scratched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
Ok, forget the charities. There are dozens of free clinics in almost every state. All you have to do to qualify is make less than X amount of money. They are government or state funded clinics or program to assist the low income folks stay healthy. A lot of these clinics will even cover the cost of some pretty big surgery's. My point is that there are so many options, that you either live in the sticks without electricity, or or you are not trying. I posted a ton of source information, and you replied with your opinion instead of actual information, that gets irritating after awhile.
OK - here is a fact, not an opinion. Government and state funded clinics are hand outs funded by people who have professional jobs in town - we pay taxes so others can exercise your lifestyle choice of being poor. What's a difference between a voluntary charity funded by donations and a compulsory tax funded charity (state government run clinic)? Seems to me you want to be a subsistence farmer by flying under the radar tax-wise (not making enough money) and gaming the system by getting tax-funded health care. So which one is it? Do you want to be a (poor) farmer and responsible for for your own healthcare or do you want others to be responsible for your healthcare while you play (poor) farmer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
As I have proven many times with actual accounts or factual information with sources linked, that many small niche farms started with nothing and became successful. I will continue to link examples in every post to make a point. Also in my most recent reply to Oldtrader, i posted some very easy sources of revenue, your average American can use to start a farm. And since everyone is screaming about no medical I will continue to post links for free or low cost medical too.
It's a free country, do whatever you deem necessary to prove your point, I enjoy our discourse

Now, I never said small niche farms cannot be profitable. However, (a big HOWEVER), make sure you understand what goes into making such a farm profitable.

For one, it should be close to its market - a big city with sophisticated, professional clientele (it's the rich who mostly buy the niche stuff and can afford the $15 asparagus bunch or $8.99/lb heirloom tomatoes). However, to be close to your clientele (to make sure you can supply fresh and good produce), you have to pay for expensive land - here land in a 60 mile radius around the city starts at $15K/acre (and that's crappy land full of rock). It will also be a few years to even start to make profit. Then there are outbuildings and the biggest of all - marketing. Around here the place is chock full of organic farmers (most are corporate refugees from big cities like NYC, San Fran, Portland, Chicago, D.C.) and they all compete to sell at the farmer's markets or to become Wholefoods' suppliers or what-not. Most of them are, as I said, corporate refugees, some are trust fund babies and quite a few have a spouse in the city in a professional capacity - which affords them worry-free healthcare and a great cushion to fall down on and keep the farm going until it starts showing some kind of a profit. How else do you think they were able to plonk $400K on the 5 acres + house and play farmer and keep paying the mortgage? Now remove the city-professional-spouse from the equation and see how life treats ya with no healthcare and mortgage payments to make while you are growing that niche chocolate-basil.

Here is a real-life example: my wife and I know someone who was renting good land out to people to farm. He owned 50+ acres 25 miles outside of the city (do the math: 25 acres x $20K = $500K). He kept a huge amount of chickens on the land (free ranging for real) and was a supplier for Wholefoods. How do you think he got into possession of that land? He was a high level manager at a local (famous) sub/sandwich chain for years prior. He got sick of the corporate gig and bought the land. If you didn't know the guy, he could spin you any story about hard life and niche farming. Most Mother Earth News and other magazines/books spin the same tales. But they NEVER tell you what these people did in their past to buy that farm...

I don't know about you but I have NEVER been on the dole and NEVER taken handouts. I grew up with parents who were professionals and they paid their way through life - never been on any handouts either. I went to school, worked to pay tuition and worked my way up without any living relatives in this country. I command a good pay, I own my own land and I making my own path in life. Living day to day with $100 in the bank and begging to be seen at the free clinic where diagnostics is unaffordable and worse yet - putting my children through that (if I had any) - is simply unacceptable. I simply refuse to live a $500 car repair away from the brink of disaster.

Last edited by LordyLordy; 12-27-2014 at 04:09 PM..
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Old 12-27-2014, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,346 times
Reputation: 217
I said they can get $14 an hour just about anywhere in the US. My fiance is certified through Carrington collage. In the SF bay area, a vet tech can start out as long as $14 an hour with little experience. Some make over $20 an hour. In South Carolina, they average around $16. Sure a waitress could make quite a bit more with tips, but the average income for a waitress across the US is quite a bit lower.

So you agree that there is free medical that is available? Because in an earlier post you said:

"Subsidies and extreme poverty? Add a waitressing job in town for the wife, no health insurance for anyone, some gamin gof the system nobody wants to talk about and you got a great existence going "
And
"Are all those options for free? 'Cause last I checked they all cost a pretty penny. So, you have to be making some kind of a serious profit to afford $500+/month in premiums. Add children to that and goooooood luck!"

Or this from StealthRabbit:
"Free or affordable healthcare? Not in the USA. I will be uninsured, and fly to Asia till eligible for Medicare (if it exists by then). I had 3 friends die in the last 2 yrs cuz they had no insurance and ran out of available funds to subside US medical industry. (Which had taken their farms for previous treatment expenses)"

So when you or someone else throw out false information to make a point, I feel it needs to be corrected.

So while you might feel that it is "a handout" StealthRabbit's friends died after losing their farms for lack of healthcare, do you think they or their family's would have cared if it was a handout if it kept them alive?
I am not here to pass judgement on anyone nor to waste time debating morality choices, just to point out that a particular lifestyle is generally possible and to shoot down false information paraded about by people trying to prove a point.

Also 500k while a very large investment, isn't that much money when you consider it is not just a business investment but a home as well. $272,900 is the average home value sold in 2012 (US Census bureau). I'm not saying everyone has a home of that value, nor do I suggest everyone sold their home for pure profit instead of some profit and some loan repayment.

What I am suggesting is a very large number of people can in fact make the transition from city life to farm life.

Add in the vast number of farm/ranch related support groups, loans and grants, it is very possible.

Sure some will fail (approx. 45% in the first decade-according to the USDA) but that is no reason for the droves of people who post here to jump on the bandwagon and say it is a terrible decision and too difficult or expensive. I would post some examples of the nay-sayers, but that would take all day.

All I am doing is posting the various and numerous examples of tiny farms or small farms (as defined by the USDA as less than 9 acres and less than 100 acres respectively) that were started with far less than the average cost of a home in the US and wound up as successful businesses.

my one success story per post:
Successful Micro Goat Dairy: GardenHome Farm Owners Start as City Folk

Sources:
http://ers.usda.gov/media/156049/eib53_1_.pdf
http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publica...Highlights.pdf
http://www.ers.usda.gov/media/156049/eib53_1_.pdf
http://www.vabeginningfarmer.alce.vt...in-farming.pdf
http://www.census.gov/const/uspriceann.pdf
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes353031.htm
Veterinary Technologists and Technicians : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
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Old 12-27-2014, 08:09 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,577,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
I said they can get $14 an hour just about anywhere in the US. My fiance is certified through Carrington collage. In the SF bay area, a vet tech can start out as long as $14 an hour with little experience. Some make over $20 an hour. In South Carolina, they average around $16. Sure a waitress could make quite a bit more with tips, but the average income for a waitress across the US is quite a bit lower.
$20/hr in San Francisco (with the COL there) gets you life in a cardboard box, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
So you agree that there is free medical that is available? Because in an earlier post you said:
Basic free medical may be available in charity run or tax funded clinics but it is not the same medical as having an insurance plan. Not even close. In the former you are taking a ride on the backs of others, in the latter you are pulling your own weight. The former enables you to live your chosen lifestyle and relinquishes you of the responsibility others have. In addition, it puts the burden on others to work more and harder and give up more of their income to subsidize you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
So when you or someone else throw out false information to make a point, I feel it needs to be corrected.
I think you are confusing free health clinics where you get basic care with health insurance plans that cover that and much, much more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
So while you might feel that it is "a handout" StealthRabbit's friends died after losing their farms for lack of healthcare, do you think they or their family's would have cared if it was a handout if it kept them alive?
I am not here to pass judgement on anyone nor to waste time debating morality choices, just to point out that a particular lifestyle is generally possible and to shoot down false information paraded about by people trying to prove a point.
Sorry but it is not about a morality choice. People who want to fly under the radar income wise and take advantage of healthcare afforded to them by others are not only immoral but they are also making choices that cost others real money. When you cannot afford a visit to an MD and you have to wait for it to get so dire that you need to get to the ER and then you cannot pay the resulting bills - who picks up the tab? When you have children you cannot afford and end up taking them to state (tax) funded clinic, it is not just a question of morality, you are putting you kids into a situation they didn't choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
Also 500k while a very large investment, isn't that much money when you consider it is not just a business investment but a home as well. $272,900 is the average home value sold in 2012 (US Census bureau). I'm not saying everyone has a home of that value, nor do I suggest everyone sold their home for pure profit instead of some profit and some loan repayment.
Oh boy....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
What I am suggesting is a very large number of people can in fact make the transition from city life to farm life.
Yeah, and I agree. I am just saying these people will need a FAT bank account and a job in town. Most will never admit to it though. All you read is the little family that purchased the 40 acre old Amish farm in Wisconsin, husband always has a beard, wife is always pregnant with a bandana in her hair and 5 yr old girl is always hands full of organic produce. Nobody tells you how they managed to afford a home, a 40 acre homestead and a viable farm in a matter of a year or two...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
Add in the vast number of farm/ranch related support groups, loans and grants, it is very possible.
HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED loans and grants, tax funded state clinics, so on and so on. Where does it stop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
Sure some will fail (approx. 45% in the first decade-according to the USDA) but that is no reason for the droves of people who post here to jump on the bandwagon and say it is a terrible decision and too difficult or expensive. I would post some examples of the nay-sayers, but that would take all day.
Notice I didn't say it's a terrible decision. I just said, let's be honest and say what is needed REALLY to start and run a farm. Even a small, niche farm. For example, you can buy a place and work for 10 years in town to pay off the mortgage first. Then you work a few more to save money and then you start your farm. That's totally doable and it is probably a better way to do it and healthier too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
All I am doing is posting the various and numerous examples of tiny farms or small farms (as defined by the USDA as less than 9 acres and less than 100 acres respectively) that were started with far less than the average cost of a home in the US and wound up as successful businesses.
Thanks, keep doing that. However, you are not posting all the ones that went bust,no? Many times you learn better from the failure of others...
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Old 12-27-2014, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,346 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
$20/hr in San Francisco (with the COL there) gets you life in a cardboard box, no?
Not really, myself and my ex wife bought a 445k home in martinez, in the SF bay area when we were both 20 years old making about 20$ an hour.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
Basic free medical may be available in charity run or tax funded clinics but it is not the same medical as having an insurance plan. Not even close. In the former you are taking a ride on the backs of others, in the latter you are pulling your own weight. The former enables you to live your chosen lifestyle and relinquishes you of the responsibility others have. In addition, it puts the burden on others to work more and harder and give up more of their income to subsidize you.

I think you are confusing free health clinics where you get basic care with health insurance plans that cover that and much, much more.
Get cut, both will clean the wound and put in stitches. Get an infection both will give you antibiotics.
What is the difference? There is virtually every kind of assistance program you can ask for out there. Most people simply do not to look for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
Sorry but it is not about a morality choice. People who want to fly under the radar income wise and take advantage of healthcare afforded to them by others are not only immoral but they are also making choices that cost others real money. When you cannot afford a visit to an MD and you have to wait for it to get so dire that you need to get to the ER and then you cannot pay the resulting bills - who picks up the tab? When you have children you cannot afford and end up taking them to state (tax) funded clinic, it is not just a question of morality, you are putting you kids into a situation they didn't choose.

I am pretty sure this is the definition of a morality choice. And again this is your morality. Personally I do not mind helping out a local farmer. We waste enough $$ on tons of other useless programs, at least this one has a purpose- reducing the reliability on a centralized food market. If you do not think that is important check out my link at the bottom of the page. But again, its a morality choice. Maybe that bothers you, but it doesn't seem to bother plenty of other people.
You said it is not available which is false, yet you back that statement because you disagree with it from a morality standpoint. Personality, I show people the options then let them make the choice for themselves, instead of telling them it doesn't exist. Or should we tell people abortions and birth control do not exist either, because it offends someones morality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
Yeah, and I agree. I am just saying these people will need a FAT bank account and a job in town. Most will never admit to it though. All you read is the little family that purchased the 40 acre old Amish farm in Wisconsin, husband always has a beard, wife is always pregnant with a bandana in her hair and 5 yr old girl is always hands full of organic produce. Nobody tells you how they managed to afford a home, a 40 acre homestead and a viable farm in a matter of a year or two...
Actually almost every single story I linked talks about how they afforded it. Try reading some of them, very inspirational. In the last one I linked, they sold their current home, bought 40K worth of a home and a few acres and slowly acquired goats and equipment with the help of some friends. The dad worked the same job he always did, the mom did all the farm work and their quality of life did not change much as their new house payment was much much lower than their old house payment. This allowed the mom to not work in town and instead she focused on the farm. The farm is now the largest source of income for that family.



Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED loans and grants, tax funded state clinics, so on and so on. Where does it stop?
Using the power of "the Google" I have several websites to visit to help you secure a loan or grant at affordable rates.Beginning Farmers and Ranchers LoansFind Grants, Money and Resources for Your Small FarmFSA - Farm Loan ProgramsSmall Farm Funding Resources | Rural Information CenterMinority and Women Farmers and RanchersHow to Obtain Grant Money to Start a Farm | Chron.comFarm Operating Loans
State Departments of Agriculture


Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
Notice I didn't say it's a terrible decision. I just said, let's be honest and say what is needed REALLY to start and run a farm. Even a small, niche farm. For example, you can buy a place and work for 10 years in town to pay off the mortgage first. Then you work a few more to save money and then you start your farm. That's totally doable and it is probably a better way to do it and healthier too.
There are many smart ways to do it, but I have yet to see you talk about them. Instead I see lots of negativity in your posts. Some positive suggestions would be nice.

People keep posting about 200+ acre farms that have tens of thousands of dollars in equipment or livestock. But over 51% of farms are under 49 acres (USDA). Most 49 acre sized farms are no where near 500K. In fact you can find hundreds for less than 100K. $89,300 is the average size of a 401k in the US(CNN). This is also half of the average US mortgage.

So again, I disagree that it will take a large amount of money to be successful. It will take brains, hard work and some know how. But I have neither found nor has anyone linked me, any proof that a successful farm requires a large monetary investment. Actually, the closest anyone has done besides offer their personal opinion was Oldtrader, who did in fact link information pointing to a universal income ratio that alluded to success rates for farms, but it was a study done by UC Davis about California based farms, who typically have the highest property values in the country.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
Thanks, keep doing that. However, you are not posting all the ones that went bust,no? Many times you learn better from the failure of others...
Why? I have already posted the statistics that show failure rates. Why read sob stories? To learn what not to do? Could you imagine teaching a science class like that? "Ok kids! Today we are going to mix bleach and ammonia in a small enclosed space. Doesn't that smell nice children?"
Sure you can learn from other peoples failures, but it is just as appropriate to learn from successes and not so depressing to read. I am not teaching people how to farm or run a business, I am simply offering hope through examples and data.


I keep hoping that at some point you will start posting actual information to back up your personal opinions.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/media/1156726/err152.pdf401(k) balances reach record highs, but many young workers still cashing out - Feb. 13, 2014Global food system raises risk of widespread contamination
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Old 12-27-2014, 11:36 PM
 
9,147 posts, read 8,412,096 times
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Some people just look and see the land is low priced. Using an example that I understand the area the land is in. Only $124,000 for 124 acres. Sounds cheap for a ranch. Sold as you can own your own ranch for hunting, fishing, riding camp, or lodge. Look at the pictures, and at the map. It is just waste land, for maybe a place to get away and park a R.V. a couple of times a year. There is nothing that you could farm or ranch on that property in that particular area, that would bring in enough money to pay any of the bills.

124 Acres Conejos County - Property - LandAndFarm.com - Land for Sale

Or: Agricultural - Haileyville, OK - Property - LandAndFarm.com - Land for Sale

110 acres for only $93,500. Completely undeveloped land for sale for hunting or just getting away from it all. It is not land that is suitable for farming, which anyone knowing anything about farming, ranching can tell by just looking at the land itself in the pictures. Farmable land, would have grass and other undergrowth growing on it. This does not. Look at the scrub trees on the land. The land is not even suitable to grow decent trees and plant life. A sure sign the land is not farmable. And even the access is questionable as to a new owner even being able to access the land according to the listing agents.

Lot - Somerset, KY - Property - LandAndFarm.com - Land for Sale

Again cheap scrub land, suitable for hunting, etc. and you need a very rugged truck to even get to the property. Build a home on it, and is completely off the grid. Very expensive, and very expensive to even build on it if you wanted to do it.

What city boys dreaming of being country boys do is look up things like this and see them as farms. They are not, and would not be property that could be developed into a small farm.

And here is a farm in Colorado that is developed, and at a very reasonable price. 138 acres, with irrigation, and one large equipment shed. A minimum set up. You can pay the price for something like this, or end up spending as much or more to develop a similar farm. This is in one of the cheaper farm areas of Colorado. Similar is size to the #1 ranch above. And as I said, fairly priced at just over half a million dollars.

Here is a minimal farm with irrigation rights which are needed to farm or ranch in one of the lowest priced farm areas of Colorado. It is only 38 acres, and you grow hay on it. One of the easiest crops for a beginner. Price only $335.000. Nothing fancy, just level flood irrigated ground so no expensive irrigation equipment needed one reason it is cheap, and in that area it will make 3 to 4 ton of hay per year per acre.

Colorado Mountain Hay Ground W Great Hunting - Montrose, Colorado
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Old 12-28-2014, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,346 times
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LordyLordy, this is how it is done. Oldtrader knows how to debate. He posts information and examples. While I disagree with him a lot on this topic, He does bring valid points (and a cynical disposition) to the post.

Oldtrader, obviously not every plot of land is viable for a farm or ranch.

That being said, in a quick 10 minute search i have found over 1100 properties.

These were on the first page.
Obviously they all need something and some more than others, but that's the nature of the game right?

TILLABLE ACRES-FARM HOUSE-BARN REDUCED!!! - Property - LandAndFarm.com - Land for Sale tobacco could be fun!
Affordable Recreational Property - Property - LandAndFarm.com - Land for Sale -needs irrigation
A River Runs Through It - Property - LandAndFarm.com - Land for Sale can you say caviar farm? or maybe trout farm!

I am interested to hear your opinion of these (above) properties, they are the results of a quick search, but I bet someone with your experience could come up with some ideas.

Here are a few that are considerably cheaper than the one you linked with homes, utility buildings and irrigation.
Oswego County Muck and Vegetable Farm - Property - LandAndFarm.com - Land for Sale farm
Otsego County Hobby Farm - Property - LandAndFarm.com - Land for Sale ranch
50 Acre Apple/Peach Orchard - Property - LandAndFarm.com - Land for Sale orchard
all three are on par with average US home mortgage values.

That orchard loots great in google maps.

Oldtrader, thank you for your informative post. Keep it up!

Last edited by Westcoastnavy; 12-28-2014 at 01:04 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 12-28-2014, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,148 posts, read 50,323,277 times
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In Maine, More Hipsters Choosing Life on the Farm | Maine Public Broadcasting

There are many examples of people starting out farming.
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