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Old 12-29-2014, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
3,165 posts, read 2,916,016 times
Reputation: 2885

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Someone has a trust fund.
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,165 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
Yeah right. I would rather earn a lot and deal with some expenses than be **** poor and walk around claiming I am stress free (does that also mean responsibility-free?) and depend on the kindness of strangers to offer me help when I need it (be it for health or otherwise).
Frankly, these walls of text are getting a bit out of control. The point of a forum is not to banter, but to educate, learn and express ideas.

So what is your argument at this point? that farming is hard? That has been covered in spades and no one disagrees.
That it is impossible to make a living? Every study I and others have posted kicks that theory in the teeth and you can debate the morality of how it is done, but the fact remains that it IS done.
That it takes a ton of money to start or it is impossible? We can debate that if you choose, but lets make it a point to avoid all the sidelines on the way and use real data not "in my experience" because everyone has different experiences, you live in a specific area with unique conditions (we all do), and it is impossible to compare different situations in farming with one persons experience with goats (or whatever) will simply not relate to organic orchards or specialized mushrooms or a flower farm.

So lets get back to the original argument.
Small farm as a successful capitol venture.
You seem to think every small farm is dirt floor poor. So=


In 2004, the most recent year for which comparable data exist, the average farm household had an annual net income of $81,480, while the average U.S. household netted $60,528.

"While off-farm income can include interest, dividend, and social security payments, in nearly 70 percent of family farm households the operator or the spouse reported having an off-farm job in 2004."

This supports some of your argument that off farm work is required (In 70% of the farms), It also supports that (in 30% of farms) it does not. It also does not record whether one or both spouses work off the farm.

USDA Report.
Family farms

The current definition of a family farm, since 2005, based on the Agricultural Resource Management Survey is one in which the majority of the business is owned by the operator and individuals related to the operator by blood, marriage, or adoption, including relatives that do not live in the operator household.

Bracket: Small farm, Low sales
Total Number of farms-395,781
Average net income=$9,098
Average debt owed=$84,908 55% real estate
% with positive net income=68.7

Bracket: retirement
Total Number of farms=338,671
Average net income=$9,655
Average debt owed=63,154 68.8% real estate
% with positive net income=79.5

Bracket: residential/lifestyle
Total Number of farms=837,542
Average net income=$4,544
Average debt owed=82,030 83.6% real estate
% with positive net income=62.8

Bracket: Small farm, Low sales
Total Number of farms-395,781
Average net income=$9,098
Average debt owed=$84,908 65.4% real estate
% with positive net income=68.7

Bracket: Small farm, medium sales
Total Number of farms=133,299
Average net income=$39,084
Average debt owed=210,957 55.7% real estate
% with positive net income=76.9

Bracket: Large farm
Total Number of farms=100,870
Average net income=$87,488
Average debt owed=265,223 54.1% real estate
% with positive net income=82.2

Bracket:Very large farm
Total Number of farms=82,585
Average net income=$287,921
Average debt owed=594,084 51.7% real estate
% with positive net income=83.8

Average American
Number=318,881,992
Average gross income=41,211.36
Average mortgage debt= $117,000 Listed as a comparison against farm property
Average debt=$70,000
# of people under poverty limit= approx. 48,237,888

*This does not relate how many farms were intended to generate positive income vs those that were not.
*Definitions of brackets can be found on USDA website.



2005-2010-As you can see, the odds that a new business survives its early years vary a lot by sector. In order from highest to lowest five year survival rates, the sectors are:

mining (51.3 percent)
manufacturing (48.4 percent)
services (47.6 percent)
wholesaling and agriculture (47.4 percent)
retailing (41.1 percent)
finance, insurance, and real estate (39.6 percent)
transportation, communications and utilities (39.4 percent)
construction (36.4 percent)

So statistically Farms are comparable to a typical small businesses.
The more capitol you have to start out with, the larger your farm is are and how well placed you are in the market all directly affect success ratios. But in every study, farms are not in any way the worse possible business venture to start.

U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/31/news/economy/minimum-wage-college-graduates/index.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeleef/2014/04/21/college-degrees-arent-becoming-more-valuable-their-glut-confines-people-without-them-to-a-shrinking-low-pay-sector-of-the-market/

Recent college grads face 36% 'mal-employment' rate - Jun. 25, 2013
http://www.census.gov/people/wealth/...hts%202011.pdf
www.census.gov/people/wealth/files/Debt_Tables_2011.xlsx
Average wages, median wages, and wage dispersionPopulation Clock
Small Business Failure Rates by Industry SectorUSDA ERS - Farm Household Well-being: Glossary
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,165 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecarebear View Post
Someone has a trust fund.

?
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Old 12-31-2014, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
3,165 posts, read 2,916,016 times
Reputation: 2885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
?
The two things needed to be a successful farmer is a large bankroll and time, neither of which most Americans have. That is why almost all farmers should be called 'hobby farmers'. I blame the hipster hippie cons for screwing up everyone's brain into thinking they can give it all up and live like the Ingalls.
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Old 12-31-2014, 09:00 AM
 
5,876 posts, read 5,356,049 times
Reputation: 17994
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecarebear View Post
The two things needed to be a successful farmer is a large bankroll and time, neither of which most Americans have.
Well THAT was some hooey from someone who obviously doesn't farm and has never been on a farm, doesn't know any farmers and knows nothing about farming!

American farmers feed the world, and the low cost of food in America proves that. Most American farmers are cash poor though land rich. Yes, it does take cash to get into farming these days but those who are committed to the life have found and will find a way. Things are changing. And farmers spend their TIME farming.

I do agree that many of the recent posts in this thread have been on the wakaloony edge of fringish and that the idealism expressed by many here is completely unrealistic and irritating. But it's better to be unrealistic and idealistic than to be willfully ignorant and cynical.
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Old 12-31-2014, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,146 posts, read 50,309,418 times
Reputation: 19849
A friend of mine [who is a farmer] sent me this today.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Peace...y/360728775694

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152516234428202
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Old 12-31-2014, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
3,165 posts, read 2,916,016 times
Reputation: 2885
Quote:
Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother View Post
Well THAT was some hooey from someone who obviously doesn't farm and has never been on a farm, doesn't know any farmers and knows nothing about farming!

American farmers feed the world, and the low cost of food in America proves that. Most American farmers are cash poor though land rich. Yes, it does take cash to get into farming these days but those who are committed to the life have found and will find a way. Things are changing. And farmers spend their TIME farming.

I do agree that many of the recent posts in this thread have been on the wakaloony edge of fringish and that the idealism expressed by many here is completely unrealistic and irritating. But it's better to be unrealistic and idealistic than to be willfully ignorant and cynical.
Umm....ok. I completely have the experience to back up my post and so would my friends and family.
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Old 12-31-2014, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,165 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post

That video about killed me. *I love the way you grow it*

Nice pick sub-dude! A CSA is a great option.
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Old 12-31-2014, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,165 times
Reputation: 217
Small Business Success Story: Cherry Grove Organic Farm

Almost forgot my one success story!! (with some financial background)
Watch the video
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Old 12-31-2014, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,146 posts, read 50,309,418 times
Reputation: 19849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
That video about killed me. *I love the way you grow it*

Nice pick sub-dude! A CSA is a great option.
I do not run a CSA, though I know many people who do. I am merely a small farmer who sells to a Buyers Club and a Farmer's Market.

I am on a committee organizing our annual regional CSA Fair. Last year we had 12 CSAs attend our CSA Fair, and we had over 300 customers who signed-up to be participating members of CSAs. I have gotten us into a larger facility for 2015, we are hoping for a larger turn-out.

It is exciting to see so many new farms starting up each year, and these new Farmer's Markets opening

It is great seeing so many young farmers getting into it on a shoe-string budget, and I enjoy being a part of organizations that help to make it happen for them.

We are fortunate to live in a time when young adults can get into farming, without need for a huge amount of money up-front or debt-load.

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