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Old 01-01-2015, 07:52 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,577,507 times
Reputation: 1458

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
We are fortunate to live in a time when young adults can get into farming, without need for a huge amount of money up-front or debt-load.
Aham, yeah. I would love to see your financials. I mean the REAL financials. I have a big feeling that farming is not ALL you do for income and the military pension is not the ONLY outside income you have. How did you get started with your land? Sold property in Cali? I have seen so many Cali transplants come to cheap places like New Mexico, Idaho, Colorado, Arizona, Wyoming, Montana and raise the local taxes, real estate prices etc. and start all these "sustainable business" - well, yeah, once you sold your overpriced Cali real estate - you can go to some ****-poor place and play whatever you want to play, farmer, yoga guru...

But, what can I say, I have no proof to back that up. I can just smell bulls**** when I hear it.

Final question: what are these new farmers without debt loads and up front cash doing for health insurance? How soon are they profitable? Who is paying the bills until they become profitable?
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Old 01-01-2015, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,151 posts, read 50,327,370 times
Reputation: 19856
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
... Final question: what are these new farmers without debt loads and up front cash doing for health insurance? How soon are they profitable? Who is paying the bills until they become profitable?
Is there an icon for a broken-record? I suspect that young adults today [having never dealt with vinyl records] have no idea what it means for a record to skip tracks and play over-and-over.

If new farmers go through one of the Apprenticeship/Journeyman programs, then they are earning a living while they are working on a farm. Which provides experience in crop production and marketing. Then there are multiple paths available to them to acquire their own farm. Which I can repeat for you yet again if you so desire.

If new farmers wish go it on their own, they may share-crop land. Obviously during this initial period they will need to hold a job somewhere. Fortunately in my region the Cost-Of-Living is not terribly high. Minimum-Wage puts you over the average household income for supporting a family.

There are other options, depending on any number of other factors.



I would never recommend to anyone to start out with any debt-load. Debt-loads lead to disaster.
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Old 01-01-2015, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,387 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
But, what can I say, I have no proof to back that up. I can just smell bulls**** when I hear it.
So broken.
Lets debate the cost of a small farm start up shall we?
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Old 01-01-2015, 06:29 PM
 
399 posts, read 564,441 times
Reputation: 702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
Hi, everyone. I'm a nearly-middle-aged suburban guy with a boring office job. (Not that I'm complaining.) I'm happy to be employed, but the idea of living on and operating a small farm really appeals to me. I love working outdoors, enjoy physical labor, am not averse to getting very dirty, and I don't run screaming like a little girl at the sight of blood or animal poo.

What's the most profitable type of farming? I've heard that organic farming (veggies and/or meat) makes a good living. (An example would be Polyface Farms in Virginia, profiled in Food Inc.). I also like the idea of a vineyard. (Go ahead, roll your eyes. I know it sounds kinda ridiculous. Especially for a guy whose favorite wine is Three Buck Chuck.) I like the idea of being outside a lot, working really hard for a few hours, then not at all. And not having a boss sounds pretty good too!

Is this a viable idea? And how would one go about it, other than the obvious steps of buying land and equipment/animals? Register with USDA?

It's funny: My 92-year-old godfather couldn't wait to get away from the farm in Alvarado, Texas when he was a boy. Now here I am dreaming of that life wistfully.

Thanks for any thoughts or advice.

I am a dairy farmer. I find that very offensive, to say we work a few hours, then not at all. Anyone who would say that is disrespectful and obviously knows very little about farming. I have met too many cityslickers that think farmers just sit on their ass half the time.
Farming is hard work, EVERY day, holidays and weekends and birthdays etc. And its not when you want to do it, its when the animals need it or the weather says to.
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Old 01-01-2015, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,387 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by purplepeach View Post
I am a dairy farmer. I find that very offensive, to say we work a few hours, then not at all. Anyone who would say that is disrespectful and obviously knows very little about farming. I have met too many cityslickers that think farmers just sit on their ass half the time.
Farming is hard work, EVERY day, holidays and weekends and birthdays etc. And its not when you want to do it, its when the animals need it or the weather says to.

I doubt his intention was to offend anyone. Yall dairy farmers lives are ran on particular schedule due to the type of work that you do.
It can be tough to put yourself in other peoples shoes sometimes, I know I get pretty irritated when people talk about their plan for family events or BBQs on memorial day while I and others are visiting departed friends or loved ones, but they just do not know, so I try to educate them instead of getting mad at them.

That being said, not all types of farms have a schedule like yours, and the concept that farming is hard work has been posted many times over.

It seems that while people hear the phrase "the grass is always greener on the other side", few take it to heart. Both rural and city life styles come with hardships and joys. In the military I met plenty of farm boys who were in the military to go to collage and get away from farm life so they could end up working in a nice office somewhere and live in a fancy condo in a sky rise over looking the skyline and I met just as many city kids who wanted to save up their money, go to collage and start a farm out in the trees and meet some southern girl to settle down with.

I think it is in our nature to grasp at a life that is different from ours. Those city kids will go and find out what real work is, while the country kids find out why city folk lock their doors at night and move to the suburbs to raise children.
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Old 01-02-2015, 07:16 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,577,507 times
Reputation: 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Is there an icon for a broken-record?
You still haven't shown us your financials. Every time someone says it can be done and actively promotes, they should be ready to share their financials. Otherwise I call bull*it. There are so many snakes-oil salesmen in this country who have ulterior motives that I simply stopped believing blank statements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
If new farmers go through one of the Apprenticeship/Journeyman programs, then they are earning a living while they are working on a farm.
How much are they getting paid? Where are they living? Who is paying for their healthcare while apprenticing or after they start their farm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Which provides experience in crop production and marketing. Then there are multiple paths available to them to acquire their own farm. Which I can repeat for you yet again if you so desire.
Who is paying for this marketing? What land are they producing on? How to they go from "nothing to my name" apprentice to "crop production on their own farm"? without any cash in the bank?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
If new farmers wish go it on their own, they may share-crop land. Obviously during this initial period they will need to hold a job somewhere. Fortunately in my region the Cost-Of-Living is not terribly high.
So you do need a job in town? Does this job provide health insurance or are they riding on the "free clinic gravy train"? Share-cropping? Sounds like feudalism to me. I wonder what the percentage of people is who "shake off" their feudal overlord and actually end up owning a farm? I would bet that most of them are free labor for a few years until they move on to some other minimum wage "career".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Minimum-Wage puts you over the average household income for supporting a family.
Ah, the successes of the working class when you are considered an achiever when you are making minimum wage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
There are other options, depending on any number of other factors.
Like what? Having a cozy pension? Or having sold property in California and moved to a 10-100 times cheaper land that looks like buying chewing gum instead of acreage, compared to California?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
I would never recommend to anyone to start out with any debt-load. Debt-loads lead to disaster.
We agree on this but the only way to avoid debt is to have your money pile in the bank or have Daddy leave you a swath of land.
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,387 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
You still haven't shown us your financials. Every time someone says it can be done and actively promotes, they should be ready to share their financials. Otherwise I call bull*it. There are so many snakes-oil salesmen in this country who have ulterior motives that I simply stopped believing blank statements.

So how many people would need to share their financials?

I posted tons and tons of data proving various points, but you refuse to accept it. You say it is a minority or rare thus not a good example or call its morality into question. You say that you need proof, but how many examples have I given you, many with financial information, while you call the veracity of the example into question and talk about how they are withholding information or not telling everything? You always have some reason for why it cannot be true. IE They must have had other income or they are lying about their farm income or they had to have some huge sum of money just laying around. You complained on many of your posts the lack of financials given, when a bunch of them had that information posted, which means you never bothered to read them.

So if Sub were to post his personal finacials on here (again) what would be the point?

It seems you have made up your mind, and short of someone moving in next door to you and giving you full access to their records, nothing else would make you happy. You are just another close minded person, who cannot see past his own personal experience.
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,387 times
Reputation: 217
article Small Farms: Perceptions vs. Realities
author Steve Upson
While a number of people who have "been there and done that" dispute the concept of a successful small farm started with a small investment, this guy does not think it is so crazy.

also, another small farm success story.

Success Stories of the Farms Program | Intervale Center
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,151 posts, read 50,327,370 times
Reputation: 19856
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
You still haven't shown us your financials.
I have explained to you my income. I have told you what I own.

I will not post my 1040s online.



Quote:
... How much are they getting paid? Where are they living? Who is paying for their healthcare while apprenticing or after they start their farm?
Really?

Again?



Quote:
... Who is paying for this marketing?
I am not sure where you think you are going here.

I take my farm produce to a FM, and my customers pay to buy the produce they want.

Who pays? the customers pay.



Quote:
... What land are they producing on?
There is a cool thread, I am posting in it. You are posting in this same thread.

If you were to read this thread, THIS VERY THREAD, you would see, again, the answer to your question.



Quote:
... How to they go from "nothing to my name" apprentice to "crop production on their own farm"? without any cash in the bank?
I know that I have explained our Apprenticeship / Journeyman program before.

I have posted links to these programs before:

Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association > Programs > Farm Apprenticeships

For you, I do it yet again.



Quote:
... So you do need a job in town?
I have a pension that rough equals flipping burgers. Some do hold seasonal jobs.



Quote:
... the only way to avoid debt is to have your money pile in the bank or have Daddy leave you a swath of land.
That is not true.
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:38 PM
 
672 posts, read 661,476 times
Reputation: 1203
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
Aham, yeah. I would love to see your financials. I mean the REAL financials. I have a big feeling that farming is not ALL you do for income and the military pension is not the ONLY outside income you have. How did you get started with your land? Sold property in Cali? I have seen so many Cali transplants come to cheap places like New Mexico, Idaho, Colorado, Arizona, Wyoming, Montana and raise the local taxes, real estate prices etc. and start all these "sustainable business" - well, yeah, once you sold your overpriced Cali real estate - you can go to some ****-poor place and play whatever you want to play, farmer, yoga guru...

But, what can I say, I have no proof to back that up. I can just smell bulls**** when I hear it.

Final question: what are these new farmers without debt loads and up front cash doing for health insurance? How soon are they profitable? Who is paying the bills until they become profitable?

I've been reading the banter between the two of you since it started and you seem to keep harping back to this point.

Let me tell you. My properties took a lot of hard work to pay off. They were bought and paid off in the seventies. They all cost between 20 and 30k back then. We worked our rear ends off to do it. We went without handouts, loans and a lot of comforts.

I go back five generations of Native Californians. These darn people kept moving here from the east coast, mid west and from all over the world. My area changed from mostly rural and small laid-back beach communities to some damn playground for elitist snobs who migrated from all over this country.

So when I decide to sell out maybe even take the 1.5 to 2m per property in a downmarket maybe I'll come play farmer next to you.
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