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Old 01-03-2015, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,387 times
Reputation: 217

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
He just described it a few posts back, let me regurgitate that for you:

He had money in the bank, he owned a motorhome, he paid cash for the land (since he had money in the bank), he lived on the land while building a house for a year - all paid for by pension and money from the bank and then he started a farm. He still has a pension throughout all this. He, at the same time, advocates that it is possible for people to start a farm without any of that. Hmmm.

When I said that this his way was probably the best and most likely the only way to go some pages back, you got your panties in a bunch and started crying foul.
Lol!!

Go back several more pages where he explains where his start up money came from. It isnt something the majority doesn't have anyway.

No one ever stated that you can be flat broke and do this. But many have suggested you can take what you have and transition it.

Before you criticize me or what I say, you had better be ready to go to the mattresses.

So what would you like to see first? my articles of incorporation? Or my 17k transfer to a personal account?
Go ahead, ask, ill show you anything, I am not shy and all of this will be in a book that comes out next year anyway.
my quick example so you have a basis for what to ask for. I got out of the military and started collage with a GI bill. I did one semester. I started to look for companies that were seriously in the red.
I did a bunch of research looking for one I thought I could flip.
I found a manufacturing company (Thought By Corp) that was seriously tanking and on the verge of ch 13 and 300k in debt.
They were going progressively further into debt each month.
I sold my Harley my truck and a welding machine.
I offered the recently widowed owner 17k to walk off debt free.
She took it.
I replaced all the employees with collage kids who were veterans
Replaced multiple customers with one large secured contract from ARYZTA
spent two years working 90 hours weeks and pushed the company into the black.
Sold all of its assets to a new Corporation called G.E.A.R.S that I owned and shut down the first company (and its terrible books)
Picked up a several more contracts over a year
sold all the contracts and equipment in various break downs to competitors
sat back and collect $$ per month per contracts net value

Thats how I did it, and I would be glad to show you any reasonable data.


You keep saying you have to have capitol, I agree with that. The amount is what we disagree on. Every story I have linked, people had some capitol. Some as little as 15k (mushroom farm) some as high as 300K (dairy farm). Some sold homes (washington farm), others took out loans. All of which is possible for your average Joe city worker with a mortgage.
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Old 01-03-2015, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
3,165 posts, read 2,917,708 times
Reputation: 2890
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
But anyone who has actually participated in managing a business or owned a business knows that you need start-up capital and a financial plan that shows what you will do to make a living and pay bills until the business becomes profitable. You also need expertise in the chosen field (it would be stupid for me to decide and start up a diving school since I have never been diving in my life) - this expertise is not easy to come by, not to mention you got to live on something while acquiring it. Not only that but you have to accumulate capital while acquiring your education/expertise, in order to be able to start the business. Unfortunately, in farming ,land is a necessity, so is a place to live in et cetera. Finally, there is that pesky business of carrying health insurance, especially if you have children - you may be willing to "risk it" but your children are not required to.
I was reading a couple articles this morning about fines for not carrying health insurance. Anyone with a decent income and not on welfare is screwed. People didn't think about what Obamacare was going to do to those who want to start out on their own or live an alternative lifestyle or try to find a new job. Obamacare has killed the nomadic lifestyle. A person can't pick up and go now. Unless someone is supporting their kid out of college, there is no way the twentysomething will be able to work from nothing to learn about farming.

What you will see this year and especially after 2016 is not full time farming but more victory garden farming with people selling stuff on the side and trading for goods. Basic farming will be too expensive for most. Funny that farming has become a rich man's pastime.
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Old 01-03-2015, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,387 times
Reputation: 217
As a rule of thumb if your family income is less than four times the published Federal Poverty Guideline (400% of FPL) for your household size, and you are not eligible for employer or other public assisted healthcare (such as Medicaid or Medicare), you will be able to receive premium subsidies to help you Purchase Affordable Insurance through your State’s Health Insurance Marketplace. Although technically a “tax credit” which you will receive when you file your tax return, a tax credit advance will be paid directly to the Insurance Provider You Choose, reducing the monthly premium you have to pay. If at the end of the year your income turns out to be more or less than expected the tax credit will be adjusted and added to or taken from any tax refund or payment due.


• If your income is below the minimum threshold for filing a tax return $10,150 for an individual or $20,300 for a couple for 2015, or the lowest cost coverage offered to you would cost less than 8% of MAGI for self only coverage, you are exempt from the fee for not having coverage, but may still qualify for marketplace cost assistance or Medicaid. Visit HealthCare.Gov to obtain an exemption or cost assistance.

• If you make less than four times (400% of the FPL) you may qualify for reduced premiums through the marketplace due to Advanced Premium Tax Credits.

My fiance was exempt. But I have friends who are free through "Covered California".


http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-subsidies/
http://obamacarefacts.com/federal-poverty-level/

Last edited by Westcoastnavy; 01-03-2015 at 02:07 PM.. Reason: link
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Old 01-03-2015, 03:27 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,577,507 times
Reputation: 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
As a rule of thumb if your family income is less than four times the published Federal Poverty Guideline (400% of FPL) for your household size, and you are not eligible for employer or other public assisted healthcare (such as Medicaid or Medicare), you will be able to receive premium subsidies to help you Purchase Affordable Insurance through your State’s Health Insurance Marketplace. Although technically a “tax credit” which you will receive when you file your tax return, a tax credit advance will be paid directly to the Insurance Provider You Choose, reducing the monthly premium you have to pay. If at the end of the year your income turns out to be more or less than expected the tax credit will be adjusted and added to or taken from any tax refund or payment due.
But why run a business (like a farm) when you need to be on subsidized health care? In addition, what kind of a life is that?
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Old 01-03-2015, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,387 times
Reputation: 217
Hahaha, thats your fall back?
This is getting sad.

Despite dozens of examples and miles of evidence, you still refuse to accept that people can use a small sum of money to build a business. You assume all small farms must be broke, and thus are living off the "man" as a means to an end.

Yet you have failed in every way to provide any information or evidence to make your point other than your own experience.

And besides, the last post was not for you, it was for BlueCareBear, but thanks for reading.

Last edited by Westcoastnavy; 01-03-2015 at 03:51 PM..
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Old 01-03-2015, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
3,165 posts, read 2,917,708 times
Reputation: 2890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
As a rule of thumb if your family income is less than four times the published Federal Poverty Guideline (400% of FPL) for your household size, and you are not eligible for employer or other public assisted healthcare (such as Medicaid or Medicare), you will be able to receive premium subsidies to help you Purchase Affordable Insurance through your State’s Health Insurance Marketplace. Although technically a “tax credit” which you will receive when you file your tax return, a tax credit advance will be paid directly to the Insurance Provider You Choose, reducing the monthly premium you have to pay. If at the end of the year your income turns out to be more or less than expected the tax credit will be adjusted and added to or taken from any tax refund or payment due.


• If your income is below the minimum threshold for filing a tax return $10,150 for an individual or $20,300 for a couple for 2015, or the lowest cost coverage offered to you would cost less than 8% of MAGI for self only coverage, you are exempt from the fee for not having coverage, but may still qualify for marketplace cost assistance or Medicaid. Visit HealthCare.Gov to obtain an exemption or cost assistance.

• If you make less than four times (400% of the FPL) you may qualify for reduced premiums through the marketplace due to Advanced Premium Tax Credits.

My fiance was exempt. But I have friends who are free through "Covered California".


ObamaCare Subsidies
Federal Poverty Level 2014 - 2015

Again, anyone with a decent income and not on welfare is screwed.
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Old 01-03-2015, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,387 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecarebear View Post
Again, anyone with a decent income and not on welfare is screwed.
ehh...sort of..
This uses California as an example:
The California median wage is 76,000 annually.
A person making $48,000 a year in california you have to pay $245 a month or 2940 a year.
If you make more, you still pay the same, but if you make less you will be provided financial assistance or financial aid and pay less.
$20k annually pays $84 a month
$10k annually pays $25 a month.
That being said, in addition to Obama care, covered california pays a premium so if you are in the financial assistance bracket, then the state will also pay some of the costs.

So the people getting screwed are those closest to $48,000 in annual income while being over $48,000. That is the lowest income for the highest payment ratio.
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Old 01-03-2015, 05:52 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,577,507 times
Reputation: 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
Hahaha, thats your fall back?
This is getting sad.

Despite dozens of examples and miles of evidence, you still refuse to accept that people can use a small sum of money to build a business. You assume all small farms must be broke, and thus are living off the "man" as a means to an end.

Yet you have failed in every way to provide any information or evidence to make your point other than your own experience.

And besides, the last post was not for you, it was for BlueCareBear, but thanks for reading.
I see you are getting emotional but, this is a public forum so every post is for everyone, if you intend to talk to only someone, take it private. Otherwise it is fair game.

I don't need my own experience - I can use yours! A few posts back, you explained YOUR farming entrance: you bought a business (not a farm) on the down and made it into positive and then sold it. So you had cash to start and fit perfectly into the picture I am painting - someone who came from the corporate world (or ran a business), sold off or collected the paycheck and got into farming. After 15 pages of arguments, I am not sure what you are harping on - you and I agree on everything and thank you for validating my own point with your own experience!

This, however, is a far cry from the poor but hardworking apprentice easing his way from indentured service into ownership.

By the way, here is some parting advice: from the dawn of time there have been men who have taken advantage of other men. Sometimes it was obvious, through force and sometimes not so. This country has seen it all, profiteers, snakes-oil salesmen, arbitragers, hard working folks with a dream. Do not believe everything you read online and do not buy into every "program" out there designed to "help" someone. Most of the time these "programs" come with big strings attached and many times there is someone in the shadows making profit or taking advantage in some way or another. Just my own EXPERIENCE - I have not picked this up by Googling, I swear (so I am not sure you will even take into consideration).

Last edited by LordyLordy; 01-03-2015 at 06:00 PM..
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Old 01-03-2015, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,387 times
Reputation: 217
LOL! Of course it is for everyone! But you assuming the post was directed at you was hilarious.
And if you mean emotional as in I am laughing you are right.

Yes, $17,000 with zero previous experience in that area of expertise, no tools, no equipment.

So if 17k is enough for some people to get started then what does all this mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
Aham, yeah. I would love to see your financials. I mean the REAL financials. I have a big feeling that farming is not ALL you do for income and the military pension is not the ONLY outside income you have.
Final question: what are these new farmers without debt loads and up front cash doing for health insurance? How soon are they profitable? Who is paying the bills until they become profitable?
Loads of debt? You said 30K is nothing. So what is a "load of debt"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
We agree on this but the only way to avoid debt is to have your money pile in the bank or have Daddy leave you a swath of land.
How much is a "money pile"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
I am just saying these people will need a FAT bank account and a job in town.
17k is a fat bank account?


Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
I made the claim that in order for you to have a normal life where you are not a burden on society and you want to start a PROFITABLE BUSINESS LIKE A FARM, you have to basically do the same Submariner did, or some variation of it (like spouse working a serious job in town).
I didnt, and many of the stories I posted had people who did not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
To paraphrase you - it is like starting any other business like manufacturing. You have to have the money, the facilities, the tools. Someone's got to pay for all this kiddo!
I had none of this. I gambled. I took on a failure assumed all the debt and was able to flip it. So for a very low cost of 17k and some risk, I got all of that things you say you need.

It seems you need to start defining your terms.
On one hand, you make it sound like people need huge sums of money. On the other hand, you say $17k "fits perfectly into the picture you are painting".

But if 17k is enough to potentially be successful, then most of the US fits in that category.
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Old 01-03-2015, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,789 posts, read 11,276,228 times
Reputation: 19777
I did buy a farm, a real farm, as an investment. I needed thirty percent down to get a 7 1/2% mortgage on the balance. The farm hadn't had a crop for five years. I looked long and hard at financing; this was the best I could do. My neighbors who have the most land are mortgaged. Unlike most of them who are professional farmers, I could make my payments if the farm ceased to produce.

People can often establish hobby farms with savings and retirement income. I used investment income from other sources. The little place in the country can be lots of fun for people who can support themselves through other means.

I am not now nor have I ever been employed by government at any level. I have never received government subsidies or any sort of support from them. I have been forced against my will to participate in Social Security. I'd be far better off without it,
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