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Old 01-16-2015, 01:27 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,577,163 times
Reputation: 1458

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
First, would suggest hookers use condoms? Oh no, but your not a hooker so why on earth should you make a suggestion?????
Common sense applies to every career.
Yes but this is generic advice. It is akin to you telling a guy who wants to start farming to find some land.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
Second, i have posted somewhere near 35 links. Only one of them was NOT based on someones personal story. Only one. everything else, was an article written about one specific person/people who are currently in business in the US OR a USDA or Census bureau.
Call me out If you like, I will link everyone of them.
Please don't. We already know you have the propensity for posting links.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
third, I said I do not currently have a farm. Long before that I listed what I have done. If you are too lazy to find it, thats on you not me, stop asking.
So in essence you are just posting random stuff you have no CLUE about and claiming that it is doable, based on common sense that applies to every career. OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
Four; How do I know every article is not B.S?
well/ many of them were large newspapers.
'Cause we know large newspapers publish the truth, the WHOLE truth and nothing but the truth. Many "back to land" magazine authors have made a career living cozy in some rural place, writing about the nitty-gritty of how to install a solar system or grow a certain vegetable. Almost NOBODY has told you how they got to where they got. Pick up a copy of Mother Earth News for example (that's a large publication), go through the list of articles in there and ask yourself how many people got to write those by breaking their backs through apprenticeships. As opposed to how many of them got to where they are by being in the corporate world for 20-30 years, selling out of stocks, options, real estate etc. to buy the "hobby farm". My claim is that the vast majority comes from the later and almost NOBODY from the former. However, if you read the magazine itself, it sure sounds credible. Well, duh - it is easy to get concerned with the inner workings of the micro-drip system and write the umpteenth review of all the available systems for the next issue when the mortgage is already paid, health care is covered and all you got to do is mess with the little details post-fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
Can you prove a single one of the articles is BS?
Have you audited their tax returns? Did you live with them while they were "making it big"?
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Old 01-16-2015, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,237 times
Reputation: 217
Since no one would post their financial records online, I cannot 100% prove they are telling the truth, but you cannot prove they are lying.
Since we cannot prove it one way or another we use what we have:
1.All of these farms started at some point and are currently still in business. Some longer than 30 years.
A business that is losing money does not stay in business long.
2.They gain next to nothing from telling there story but minor publicity.
If the story is all B.S they might gain negative publicity.
3.Current USDA information proves that a large number of small farms still exist.
The total number of small farms are decreasing annually, But less than 1% a year.

You can voice your opinion all day, but for most, one persons opinion carries less weight than multiple news articles, yelp reviews and .gov/.edu websites. At the end of the day, your opinion is just an opinion, as is mine. But my opinion is backed by data, how about yours?
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Old 01-18-2015, 08:32 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,577,163 times
Reputation: 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
Since no one would post their financial records online, I cannot 100% prove they are telling the truth, but you cannot prove they are lying.
Since we cannot prove it one way or another we use what we have:
1.All of these farms started at some point and are currently still in business. Some longer than 30 years.
A business that is losing money does not stay in business long.
2.They gain next to nothing from telling there story but minor publicity.
If the story is all B.S they might gain negative publicity.
3.Current USDA information proves that a large number of small farms still exist.
The total number of small farms are decreasing annually, But less than 1% a year.

You can voice your opinion all day, but for most, one persons opinion carries less weight than multiple news articles, yelp reviews and .gov/.edu websites. At the end of the day, your opinion is just an opinion, as is mine. But my opinion is backed by data, how about yours?
I think somewhere in this thread you agreed (after I posted government stats) that small farms are in a decline. You tried voicing your OPINION as to why - bigger farms buying smaller farms (yeah right), so on and so on.

Please do understand I am not trying to be "Debbie downer" and discourage people from entering the business. All I am trying to say is this: sit down, save money, pay for land/home in cash or get to a point where mortgage is acceptable. Before everything MAKE A FINANCIAL PLAN - include health care coverage for the family, mortgage if any, other insurance, tools, other expenses. Make sure you have money to carry you through the rough time of starting a business and waiting for it to be profitable. DO NOT COUNT OF FREE CLINICS FOR HEALTHCARE! If you don't have that much money, you or spouse will have to keep the job in town. I have told people not to look across the country for the farm, look in your area, on the outskirts of town within a 50 mile radius so transport is cheap and there is an easily accessible market. Make sure you RESEARCH your market - best customers are LOCAL customers who know you and love you and want to buy from you. Aside the weather, the field work and other "rough stuff" - you will need to do marketing and lots of foot-work in general. Where we live everyone and their mother is trying to farm organic and niche and most of them ARE successful (nobody is growing lavender or bamboo or...) - however, their entry into the "biz" was EXPENSIVE due to costs of land - either you had to plop $100K for 5-8 acres of decent land (or $400K+ for a home with a few acres - after all you got to live somewhere) => hence, only the "rich" entrants need apply or Daddy better have left you some land in the area. Could these people get out east of town where land is more fertile and get a few more acres for less? Maybe (but you are farther from market and hence, less in touch with your customer base - wealthy professionals willing to pay $6.99/lb of heirloom tomato); the big surprise is that even this land is expensive by all standards (!) - people have simply figured out that this layer of land is the next land to buy for farming and hay production so they are buying it and prices are going up.

I buy hay from a guy who owns 300 acres 45 miles out of town. It is good, fertile land, irrigated (and we are slowly losing the water supply here) - his hay is good, he has some brangus cattle on it etc. How did he become a "farmer/rancher"? Moved from Austin 30 years ago into this town where land was then worth almost nothing and nobody wanted to live in the boonies. He was a dentist for the next 30 years (one of those professions you can do in the boonies and survive) and paid off his place, having someone else work the land for him at almost no profit - just to keep it in production. With a dentist's salary and someone working the land, after 30 years - he managed to build a nice home, pay off all debt - he has been making a decent living off brangus and hay for the last decade or so. When the historic drought hit Texas a few years ago, he was able to hold on to everything because of great planning and the fact that he is debt free. Many places were too leveraged to pull off the same thing.

I also know a guy who owns 50 acres of very good black and fertile land in the area. He was a high level manager of a local and very successful sub-sandwich chain. He got out because he got sick of the corporate world. Now he has a few acres covered in free-roaming chickens to produce eggs for Wholefoods. Even with all his money from the corporate life, he was cutting it very close (I think he spent more than $700-800K for the place - probably much more now that I think of it since it came with a home on the land) - so close that he put out an add to rent portions of his land to people who wanted to farm it organically <--- this by the way is a good way to get into farming - he was asking some silly money like $1200/year for an acre with water included - however, you will need to live somewhere while you are farming (he would not let you live on his land) so all standard expenses apply...

These are true stories. It is hard to make it in the farming business - there are so many factors to consider - bad weather, local demand, droughts, competition, being solvent for all the time you are starting up, cost of land and equipment or shelter (the guy with the free roaming eggs spent a fortune in all sorts of systems that protect his flocks from hawks and 4-legged predators, for example)...

At the end, many folks like the guys above will NOT tell you how they got into farming. Almost always it was a big bank account backing the venture or a job in town or both...
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Old 01-19-2015, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,490 posts, read 52,115,106 times
Reputation: 24647
If you have the stones for it growing pot on somebody else's land can be pretty profitable.
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:32 AM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,237 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
Please do understand I am not trying to be "Debbie downer" and discourage people from entering the business.
HAHAHAHAHA, you are kidding right? I mean, seriously???

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
MAKE A FINANCIAL PLAN
You think this needed to be said? Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
DO NOT COUNT OF FREE CLINICS FOR HEALTHCARE!
You do not have to? Also, we covered this. ALSO if you say MY opinion is FREE health care, I will probably buy a gold fish and name it after you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
At the end, many folks like the guys above will NOT tell you how they got into farming. Almost always it was a big bank account backing the venture or a job in town or both...
And yet again, you prove first hand that you have read almost none of the links.

Well, I am done debating with someone to lazy to read and while your posts are hilarious and nonsensical, I am bored.
Pce.



Also,
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
If you have the stones for it growing pot on somebody else's land can be pretty profitable.
My parents did this when they were young and I completely agree.
However, getting caught can get pretty expensive!!!
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Old 01-20-2015, 07:34 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,577,163 times
Reputation: 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
HAHAHAHAHA, you are kidding right? I mean, seriously???
Well yeah, I think it is better to be realistic about such a huge life decision than being stupid and following silly ad-revenue-generating links without question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
You think this needed to be said? Really?
Yeah really. I think it needed to be said more than telling people to grow bamboo...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
You do not have to? Also, we covered this. ALSO if you say MY opinion is FREE health care, I will probably buy a gold fish and name it after you.
I am not sure what you mean here. You spent about 6 posts trying to tell us how going to free clinics is not a financial choice but a moral one and I tried to tell you that when you build a business you should consider all needs of everyone involved (like your children who you would be forcing to be parasites before they can make that choice).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
And yet again, you prove first hand that you have read almost none of the links.
I read some of the links and concluded that you have no idea what you are talking about and that you are parroting stuff you have never done, all at face value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
Well, I am done debating with someone to lazy to read and while your posts are hilarious and nonsensical, I am bored.
Thank you. I figured you would turn to personal insults once you lost the real debate...
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Old 01-20-2015, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 287,237 times
Reputation: 217
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...L1mixBk9SUHgyg


Why is Polyface Farm so successful? How Joel Salatin creates self-generating, profitable enterprises | Permaculture Magazine
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Old 01-20-2015, 07:09 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,577,163 times
Reputation: 1458
The first link is actually a very good one. Thank you for that.

I have most of Salatin's books. I am still on the fence about some stuff he preaches but in general find him to be a credible source.
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Old 08-15-2015, 11:59 AM
 
2 posts, read 1,254 times
Reputation: 12
Default 5 year plan

Don't get caught up on #3. There are plenty of how to sites on here to help you. It all depends on how much land you have to do a start up. Make a 5 year plan and go for it. It may not make you rich, but possibly a lot of enjoyment.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
Thank you all so much for these very informative responses.

Lily of the Valley, re. your point no. 3: I know none of those things. At all. Which would indicate that this is not a great idea in my situation--at least any time soon. I have zero ag experience, and my wife and I (assuming I could convince her of all this--which is a real stretch) have only a small nest egg and zero experience running a business.

We live just outside of Washington, DC. There's a lot of demand for organic everything, free-range everything.

SC Granny: Appreciate the reality check.

Ognend and PAHippo: I will check out the Spin Farming site.

Maybe if I win the lottery we can buy a farm and convince the seller to show us the ropes for six months.

Anyway. Thanks again!
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Old 08-15-2015, 12:16 PM
 
2 posts, read 1,254 times
Reputation: 12
Well said! I have been making my 5 year plan for almost a year. In 5 years I might be able to begin. I made a 5 year plan before I purchased our land. 5 years from now I will be almost bill free.... Our soil type is sandy loam which is high acidic. Plan to grow all berries (Blackberries, Raspberries, Blueberries), asparagus, corn and a few other veggies. I have 3 acres I can plant on.
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