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Old 09-29-2011, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Winterport
143 posts, read 227,487 times
Reputation: 149

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I'd like to make a plug for Dr. Cook's bitless bridle if I may. I have found, particularly with my off the track thrbrd, that this bridle with its least invasive controlling measures has been the most effective way of communicating with my horse. Granted, I've done a ton of groundwork with him (natural horsemanship techniques from many different well-reputed trainers) too, but once that bit was realeased from his mouth, I noticed a willingness to learn, to respond and yes, to teach me as well.
My Morgan Appy is bitless, too......my two bitless wonders....way to go!

By the way, this is a great thread. Thanks everyone....been enjoying your comments and suggestions. Thanks for getting this going.
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Old 09-30-2011, 02:31 AM
 
11,257 posts, read 44,321,149 times
Reputation: 15083
Quote:
Originally Posted by palval1 View Post
I'd like to make a plug for Dr. Cook's bitless bridle if I may. I have found, particularly with my off the track thrbrd, that this bridle with its least invasive controlling measures has been the most effective way of communicating with my horse. Granted, I've done a ton of groundwork with him (natural horsemanship techniques from many different well-reputed trainers) too, but once that bit was realeased from his mouth, I noticed a willingness to learn, to respond and yes, to teach me as well.
My Morgan Appy is bitless, too......my two bitless wonders....way to go!

By the way, this is a great thread. Thanks everyone....been enjoying your comments and suggestions. Thanks for getting this going.
This is the first time I've ever seen the "Dr. Cook's" bridle mentioned ... all of the "natural horsemanship" instructors I've followed always used only a soft rope halter.

If it works for you, then I'll take that as a good result.

But I do note that it still looks like a lot of expensive tack on the horse compared to a soft rope halter, which is easy to make. With 19' of 1/4" yacht braid, I can make a durable halter that has no metal parts, no buckles ... a very simple, gentle yet effective communication tool ... and is fully adjustable for a horse to fit their head properly.

You can, too ... gooogle these halters and the instructions are posted on many sites with color pix and instruction how to tie the rosebud knots and the spacing of them. The first one will take you a little bit of time playing around to make, and then they're easy. You can also vary the feel of the halters by your selection of the line you use to make it; I prefer a very soft but no stretch yacht braid, while others make their halters out of a firmer braid that will hold the shape of the halter and is easier to tie and secure the rosebud knots. It's all up to you and what you find works best for your horses .... and it's the best $5 for tack you'll ever spend in exchange for a little of your time.

The trainers who sell these get a huge mark-up on them and there's a lot of satisfaction making your own. No tools required except a pair of scissors, a couple of matches to seal the cut ends, and a needle and thread to join the two ends together neatly (rather than the metal or plastic sleeve you see some makers put on there). I watched a fellow who used to make tack for P tie one in less than a couple minutes; he had so much muscle memory for the movements that it was almost a blur watching the knots get tied and he only needed to pause to measure the distance between each knot tied in sequence. He could knock out a hundred of these in an afternoon right down to having them packaged in their plastic bags for sale.

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Old 09-30-2011, 02:35 AM
 
Location: Canada
5,778 posts, read 6,688,814 times
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What is the main ideological difference, if any, between someone like Monty Roberts, who wrote The Man Who Listens to Horses, and Parelli?

I thought I came across some reference that Parelli doesn't drive his horses around the pen, while Roberts uses two ways of driving a horse around the pen - by using body language a mare uses towards a wayward foal, or body language that a predator might use against a horse. He'll stare at a horse's eyes until the horse begins to move, and/or make a claw out of his hand, which drives the horse forward.

I don't quite understand how passive persistence, as advocated by Parelli, plays into
this video of him and Catwalk. Parelli offered an explanation later since apparently his handling of Catwalk caused quite a controversy, in which he talked about matching the horse's energy. I don't see how matching energy with the horse is in any way passive, but maybe he defines it differently than I would.

Comments?
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:38 AM
 
Location: middleboro, ma
184 posts, read 615,757 times
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parelli's a businessman. he knows how to sell crap that people can get for free. carrot sticks? they're just glorified dressage whips. games? equine communication broken down so thoroughly that, theoretically, even the most timid and ignorant horse owners can figure out how to do it. i think people too often get wrapped up in the games and tools and levels, and forget all about actually learning anything. then they get frustrated that their horse won't do a certain game or something just doesn't go the way the books and videos say it's supposed to, and training comes to a screeching halt.

any sensible trainer/rider will take bits and pieces of information from a variety of sources, use common sense, and do what works with an individual horse.
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Old 10-20-2011, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,178 posts, read 9,536,988 times
Reputation: 9580
Thanks to all who've posted.
I have never had a problem with horses, or cattle, or most any creature, "wild" or "domsticated". Since I was a small child I have been able to communicate with them, and ask them for what I wanted, and they would always do it. My neighbors joke now about my "petting zoo", where everyone in the pasture comes up for treats, walks beside me, asks to be petted, even the bull. (Yes I get out of their way during mating season.) Many years ago I lived on a piece of property where wild horses came up to drink; I would walk quietly out among them and sit, and they would come up and look and nudge.

I have never understood the "breaking" of horses; one man I worked for admitted that he was terrified of them. Yet he was out there every day, throwing on saddles, yanking on bridles, forcing those horses to do what he wanted, not caring about their mouths or how they reacted. His horses were "mean" and "stubborn" and "stupid". Yet I never had a problem with them, and was always the one they called to help with foaling or injuries because the horses (and goats, and sheep, and cattle) trusted me and would let me do whatever was necessary.

I guess I just don't understand all of the tricks and games people play - but I do believe what some posters here have said, that it is about training the people, not the animal.
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Old 10-20-2011, 02:28 PM
 
2,878 posts, read 3,925,712 times
Reputation: 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by _ataraxia View Post
parelli's a businessman. he knows how to sell crap that people can get for free. carrot sticks? they're just glorified dressage whips. games? equine communication broken down so thoroughly that, theoretically, even the most timid and ignorant horse owners can figure out how to do it. i think people too often get wrapped up in the games and tools and levels, and forget all about actually learning anything. then they get frustrated that their horse won't do a certain game or something just doesn't go the way the books and videos say it's supposed to, and training comes to a screeching halt.

any sensible trainer/rider will take bits and pieces of information from a variety of sources, use common sense, and do what works with an individual horse.
This world is full of ignorant backyard horse people who have no safety standards and no idea how a safe and soft horse handles and looks. I don't practice Parelli horsemanship but I have nothing against the fact that he makes the money. So does Clinton Anderson and so does everyone else with a "name". It is a free country and nobody makes you buy into anything they sell. If you know horses you will practice sane horsemanship any time.

What Parelli and others have done for the horse is take away the mystery from training it. It used to be that you would take your horse to some supposed "trainer" and leave them for a few months and get a "broke" horse back. Anyone who has spent any time in the horse world knows that for every good trainer there are ten bad ones since the industry is largely unregulated and there are dozens of ways to skin the cat.

Most people are just jealous of Parelli and the fact that he made money.

Do you need to follow anyone's path to horsemanship? No. Do you have to buy anyone's tools to be a good trainer. Nope. But, if you have the time, the energy, the right setup and a few hundred bucks you can take your horse from A to Z safely and be proud of it by following any of these systems and getting some help along the way from someone proficient in them...

My $.02
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