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Old 10-09-2011, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Itinerant
6,795 posts, read 4,379,314 times
Reputation: 5109

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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
At first I would say a year or so. I see a lot of other people who moved to this area and are settling in.

We have been here for six years when we visit with neighbors who grew up here, We see that we still have not calmed down as much they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
You'll start to slow down, realize that some things are just going to take longer and that's perfectly ok because there's *plenty* of time... so go take a walk in the woods, or read a book, or try out a new recipe, or take up/return to a hobby, or play a game with your family. Modern life in the road rage rat race has convinced us that we never have enough time, we're always behind and everything has to be RIGHT NOW... it's a lie!!
Of course there are those of us who still wake up in the morning and self stress about how they have to get a bunch of stuff done yesterday... Not that I'd know anything about that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend View Post
My advice before doing all of the above is to make sure you have PLENTY of dough in your bank account, plenty of investments to live off of. Naturally your "fixer-upper" better be paid with cash, can't have a mortgage where there are no jobs unless your bank account and investments provide enough to pay for it and some (much smaller than in the city) living expenses such as medical insurance, items you cannot produce (assuming you want to produce some) etc. That's the "catch 22" of the backwoods lifestyle....
ognend, you suck all the fun out of life.

Seriously speaking as someone who has done this, there's one factor that needs to be addressed. At some point, you'll need to pull the trigger on a plan like this, or abandon it. You'll NEVER have enough money in your bank account, because there's always things you "need" to get to make your life simpler. A John Deere front load 40hp tractor would be awesome, but it's not in our budget, if we find we need it, then we're making enough to be able to afford a loan on one. Getting Grid power may be beneficial for periods of high load, but not on our budget, and the benefit is becoming less and less as we have been adapting. Much of the fun of living out in the sticks is figuring out how to do the stuff you need, on the budget you have.

If you're living in an urban center earning six figures (like I used to), it's difficult to see what you need, vs. what you want. Simply because you don't and can't know, so you plan for everything, which is damned expensive since you "need" everything, from that John Deere I was talking about to Grid Power, to a FiOS connection, a fully equipped vehicle shop, a firewood processor, a 30kW generator, another 4-wheeler, two snow machines, another running truck, and two totalled trucks for parts, the list goes on and on and on. Oh and this list isn't imaginary, this is part of the list I generated while in that urban center earning those six figures that we rationalized to something more reasonable. Hell I could be Bill Gates, and still be not too sure I have enough starting capital.

However it becomes more of a time and money balance. Take the vehicle shop, there's very little you can't do with some blocking and a couple of heavy duty jacks, that can be done with a lift. A good 10,000# lift costs about $2k and about $1k for the foundations, and probably $5k for an enclosure for the winter. So $8k, or you could pick up a couple of #10k jacks, some stands, for about $500. Takes you about an hour to lift a truck off the ground supported on it's rails (for suspension work and the like), but you can do it. There's pretty much nothing you can't do on a vehicle with a couple of good socket sets, wrenches, a deadblow hammer, a hoist, some pullers and a vise, and a welding torch. Of course I didn't "grok" that back in civilization. So the fully outfitted shop wasn't "needed" but wanted.

Here's a an example much of the cost of automechanics is time, not money, a recent $600 repair we were quoted actually needed two $10 replacement parts and 4 quarts of gear oil (rear axle seals for those that want to know), and about 5 hours of work. I did the repair for $20 for the parts and $32 for the oil, and about 20 hours of work, because of equipment restrictions and I'm only a gifted amateur. So $600 repair and in the shop for a week, or $52, and 20 hours of work (on the outside) across 2 days. When I was back in civilization, I wouldn't even consider doing that, except for the fun aspect. I had planned for these kinds of repairs to be done at a shop. However I only spent 8.6% of this repair budget because I came to realize I had the time to do so, but I'd had no idea that I would have the time to do so, when living in "urbania" and working a job. When I planned for these things, there just wasn't "the time", so I budgeted for the expense, and I'm learning I was grossly over estimating. Not that what I budgeted was wrong per se, but the context in which I did it was no longer valid.

YMMV
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:53 AM
 
11,257 posts, read 44,316,643 times
Reputation: 15083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetbottoms View Post
I've lived in South Florida my whole practically and everything within 15 mins of me. Now that I have a daughter I feel like I want a smaller town with less crime more community feel. I tried it once when I was 24 and I didn't adjust. At the time I didn't have a child and perhaps needed to still get the partying out of my system. We are looking again at NH and I was wondering who here went from fast a fast paced road raging lifestyle to a slower more self sustained lifestyle and how did u adjust? How long did it take for you to feel like you weren't going out of ur head. I know everyone is different but I feel like maybe my heart wasn't in it the first time and I didn't have reason enough.
Having watched a number of families over the last decade try to make this transition ... with very mixed results ... in rural Wyoming, I'd have to say that not everybody who tries this move can or ever will adapt.

Indeed, many of them live angry and frustrated lives because stuff doesn't happen for them as they expect it to. Few take the time or interest to see how others who are adjusted to the pace and needs of the area do things ... they forge ahead with their own perceptions and fail.

A key part, IMO, of being accepted into the community ... your concern about "community feel" ... is to be the neighbor that you want everybody else to be to you.

In all candor, very few of the recent arrivals from big metro areas here want to do that. More frequently than not, they treat happy rural folk as inferiors on every level, and the locals aren't having any part of that. Especially when the newcomers needs and wants become "demands" upon their neighbors and no matter how well or timely the tasks are done ... it's never good enough and they are sure to let us know how badly we've performed.

Their anger directed to the locals for not being up to their standards of performance is a word that will get around pretty quickly.

We've got so many people like this who have moved to our area that I could be writing anecdotes for hours. But the common factor here is that none of these folk invest the time to become familiar with what is needed to be a neighbor here, they want everybody to come to them to satisfy their needs and wants. It doesn't work that way ....

So, when I see the comments about "it takes a year" ... I get a chuckle. It's not a matter of time, it's a matter of your own attitudes and expectations for yourself and others. IMO, if you have the right attitude, you'll "fit in" from day one ... and if you don't, you'll never adapt or be happy in the rural environment. You may survive living in it, but happiness is another matter.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Went around the corner & now I'm lost!!!!
1,550 posts, read 3,124,144 times
Reputation: 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
Having watched a number of families over the last decade try to make this transition ... with very mixed results ... in rural Wyoming, I'd have to say that not everybody who tries this move can or ever will adapt.

Indeed, many of them live angry and frustrated lives because stuff doesn't happen for them as they expect it to. Few take the time or interest to see how others who are adjusted to the pace and needs of the area do things ... they forge ahead with their own perceptions and fail.

A key part, IMO, of being accepted into the community ... your concern about "community feel" ... is to be the neighbor that you want everybody else to be to you.

In all candor, very few of the recent arrivals from big metro areas here want to do that. More frequently than not, they treat happy rural folk as inferiors on every level, and the locals aren't having any part of that. Especially when the newcomers needs and wants become "demands" upon their neighbors and no matter how well or timely the tasks are done ... it's never good enough and they are sure to let us know how badly we've performed.

Their anger directed to the locals for not being up to their standards of performance is a word that will get around pretty quickly.

We've got so many people like this who have moved to our area that I could be writing anecdotes for hours. But the common factor here is that none of these folk invest the time to become familiar with what is needed to be a neighbor here, they want everybody to come to them to satisfy their needs and wants. It doesn't work that way ....

So, when I see the comments about "it takes a year" ... I get a chuckle. It's not a matter of time, it's a matter of your own attitudes and expectations for yourself and others. IMO, if you have the right attitude, you'll "fit in" from day one ... and if you don't, you'll never adapt or be happy in the rural environment. You may survive living in it, but happiness is another matter.
This is the bottom line here, sunspirit. I moved from Chicago area to small town in north Louisiana for college, to fast growing Texas after graduating to another small town in north TN which I knew NO ONE and back home again. I never had problems making friends no matter where I went and I would talk to strangers. I guess I got that from my Dad who would one minute sit and talk with a homeless drunk for hours and the next minute sit and talk to a college professor for another couple of hours; we would never make it home as kids

Showing.. no, let me say BEING friendly is key to all situations AND being adaptable is also just as important. Being from Chicago I knew nothing about rural living. But moving to LA and dating a guy in the "country" brought me face to face with real country living with cows, hunting dogs, horses and taking care of them all, homecooking with vegetable from the garden, fishing with bait you had to harvest yourself, hanging out tons of clothes on the clothline and people on the same street being relatives and coming over whenever they wanted and ate along with the rest of the family or neighbors waving as you drove by. But I must say I enjoyed it but I had to show an interest in these things before they accepted me into the "family". This made it easy for me to move to either rural or urban.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
3,610 posts, read 6,337,647 times
Reputation: 5463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand View Post
Now that I know who you are, let me toss out a small tidbit that may help. DON'T go back to Keene if you end up back in NH. Even though your situation has changed with the arrival of your Daughter, your past experience and memories of the last time you lived there WILL come back and needle you. Fair or not, those thoughts are there and even with a new outlook, it would be easy for them to creep back in and have more than a fair chance of ruining this time around for you and your Family. If you go back to NH, pick a new town/city and start totally, 100% fresh. It will work MUCH better; been there done that - and it is difficult not to let the old feelings settle in and ruin an otherwise good place, again.

Also, you really do need to give it at LEAST a full year to settle in a bit. Try living a town or two away from where your Hubby works (If I remember correctly he is a cop) because that puts a separation between the underbelly of the area he works and sees every day, and the place you call home and are raising your child. If he sees , and you hear, about all the bad that is in your town; it will not be long before that is mostly you expect from your town and that isn't a good thing.
we have no plans to go back to keene or that far out in NH , we are going more costal but still a town of 50,000 is still MUCH smaller than where we live.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:58 PM
 
11,257 posts, read 44,316,643 times
Reputation: 15083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetbottoms View Post
we have no plans to go back to keene or that far out in NH , we are going more costal but still a town of 50,000 is still MUCH smaller than where we live.
I have difficulty associating a "town of 50,000" with the type of community qualities that have been in this thread with a truly small town ... "rural" small towns are but a fraction of that size.
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Old 10-10-2011, 01:40 PM
 
2,878 posts, read 3,925,382 times
Reputation: 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
Of course there are those of us who still wake up in the morning and self stress about how they have to get a bunch of stuff done yesterday... Not that I'd know anything about that...



ognend, you suck all the fun out of life.

Seriously speaking as someone who has done this, there's one factor that needs to be addressed. At some point, you'll need to pull the trigger on a plan like this, or abandon it. You'll NEVER have enough money in your bank account, because there's always things you "need" to get to make your life simpler. A John Deere front load 40hp tractor would be awesome, but it's not in our budget, if we find we need it, then we're making enough to be able to afford a loan on one. Getting Grid power may be beneficial for periods of high load, but not on our budget, and the benefit is becoming less and less as we have been adapting. Much of the fun of living out in the sticks is figuring out how to do the stuff you need, on the budget you have.

If you're living in an urban center earning six figures (like I used to), it's difficult to see what you need, vs. what you want. Simply because you don't and can't know, so you plan for everything, which is damned expensive since you "need" everything, from that John Deere I was talking about to Grid Power, to a FiOS connection, a fully equipped vehicle shop, a firewood processor, a 30kW generator, another 4-wheeler, two snow machines, another running truck, and two totalled trucks for parts, the list goes on and on and on. Oh and this list isn't imaginary, this is part of the list I generated while in that urban center earning those six figures that we rationalized to something more reasonable. Hell I could be Bill Gates, and still be not too sure I have enough starting capital.

However it becomes more of a time and money balance. Take the vehicle shop, there's very little you can't do with some blocking and a couple of heavy duty jacks, that can be done with a lift. A good 10,000# lift costs about $2k and about $1k for the foundations, and probably $5k for an enclosure for the winter. So $8k, or you could pick up a couple of #10k jacks, some stands, for about $500. Takes you about an hour to lift a truck off the ground supported on it's rails (for suspension work and the like), but you can do it. There's pretty much nothing you can't do on a vehicle with a couple of good socket sets, wrenches, a deadblow hammer, a hoist, some pullers and a vise, and a welding torch. Of course I didn't "grok" that back in civilization. So the fully outfitted shop wasn't "needed" but wanted.

Here's a an example much of the cost of automechanics is time, not money, a recent $600 repair we were quoted actually needed two $10 replacement parts and 4 quarts of gear oil (rear axle seals for those that want to know), and about 5 hours of work. I did the repair for $20 for the parts and $32 for the oil, and about 20 hours of work, because of equipment restrictions and I'm only a gifted amateur. So $600 repair and in the shop for a week, or $52, and 20 hours of work (on the outside) across 2 days. When I was back in civilization, I wouldn't even consider doing that, except for the fun aspect. I had planned for these kinds of repairs to be done at a shop. However I only spent 8.6% of this repair budget because I came to realize I had the time to do so, but I'd had no idea that I would have the time to do so, when living in "urbania" and working a job. When I planned for these things, there just wasn't "the time", so I budgeted for the expense, and I'm learning I was grossly over estimating. Not that what I budgeted was wrong per se, but the context in which I did it was no longer valid.

YMMV
I fully agree with everything you said above, my experience exactly. Again though, living in a small rural town will most likely spell "no job" and unless you work from home (online), you better either have no mortgage payment or have a money producing vehicle (interest on savings or savings themselves, rental property elsewhere, investments, whatever). Otherwise, life will be very difficult. I too live/lived urban with a 6-figure salary most of my life and I speak from experience

OD
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,146 posts, read 50,309,418 times
Reputation: 19849
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
I have difficulty associating a "town of 50,000" with the type of community qualities that have been in this thread with a truly small town ... "rural" small towns are but a fraction of that size.
LOL

Biggest city in our state has 66,000 people.
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:53 PM
 
11,257 posts, read 44,316,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
LOL

Biggest city in our state has 66,000 people.
You've got us beat ... Cheyenne and Casper are still in the mid 50,000 range, depending upon who is counting. Our total state population is still only around 500,000 ... over a rather sizable land mass.
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,146 posts, read 50,309,418 times
Reputation: 19849
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
You've got us beat ... Cheyenne and Casper are still in the mid 50,000 range, depending upon who is counting. Our total state population is still only around 500,000 ... over a rather sizable land mass.
Yes, with 97,800 square miles of land, you do have a lot. However with only 0.7% water it sounds kind of dry. Whereas we have 13.5% water, plus 3,000 miles of coast line.

In any case, me point was that 50,000 is not a small town, rather it is a city.

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Old 10-10-2011, 08:04 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,083 posts, read 34,584,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Yes, with 97,800 square miles of land, you do have a lot. However with only 0.7% water it sounds kind of dry. Whereas we have 13.5% water, plus 3,000 miles of coast line.

In any case, me point was that 50,000 is not a small town, rather it is a city.

Wow, still sounds kind of dry Forest. MI has 96,810 square miles, but 41.3% is water (40,001 square miles of water, all fresh)... plus 3300 miles of shoreline. LOL


Agreed on 50,000 being a decent sized city and not a small town. There is at least one too many zero's to be a small town.
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