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Old 10-17-2012, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read 13,331,550 times
Reputation: 3581

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It's the outsiders fault the land is subdivided and sold.

Then make it illegal to sell it.

or use zoning, you like to use covenants, but whatever.
Use zoning so the land can't be sold and used for a different purpose.

Every state has the same problem, folks move in and build on your favorite hunting area, the west is no different.
The population is growing by leaps and bounds and they are free to live where they wish.

So change the laws or get use to it because it's going to continue.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:07 PM
 
2,878 posts, read 3,926,633 times
Reputation: 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofarmer View Post
It's the outsiders fault the land is subdivided and sold.

Then make it illegal to sell it.

or use zoning, you like to use covenants, but whatever.
Use zoning so the land can't be sold and used for a different purpose.

Every state has the same problem, folks move in and build on your favorite hunting area, the west is no different.
The population is growing by leaps and bounds and they are free to live where they wish.

So change the laws or get use to it because it's going to continue.
Yeah but then who is going to con the stupid city guy and his wife into buying a 20 acre parcel of worthless land where the well will need to be drilled to 1200 ft depth for a whopping cost of $20-30,000 on top of the price of the land? The same land that the local guy would never think of even looking at, now assumes an astronomical price of $5,000 or $10,000 an acre and all of a sudden gets epithets such as "beautiful mountain views", "your own wildlife sanctuary", "watch the deer drink from YOUR stream" (when you don't have the water rights on it), "enjoy the dark skies!" etc. etc...?

Then someone local opens a little bakery where a sandwich costs $10-$15 a pop and of course, the patrons are the newcomers and the benefactors are...? How about the septic guy who gets to charge twice the real value of a job to some sucker who has no alternative but to pay up?

This whole idea that the rural folks are somehow virtuous and the outsiders are dumb and out to spoil everything is silly. Sounds to me more like the feeling you get when someone comes in and crashes your party and then your party becomes their party....

OD
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:03 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,970,194 times
Reputation: 29122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend View Post
Again, I am providing a different point of view to the rosy rural picture a lot of real estate agents, developers and others who stand to profit from the new rural experience try to paint. I am also trying to point out that there is nothing special or smart about rural folks that makes them superior to city people.

OD
Quite frankly, I think you have a real fixation and agenda. I also think it's rather unbalanced. I don't think anyone has said the rural folks are more superior than city folk. You just seem to view them as having that attitude. In the main, it's probably usually quite the opposite. I would suggest you get some professional help to wean you from this obsession on a lifestyle you obviously cannot/couldn't handle.

Last edited by Curmudgeon; 10-17-2012 at 08:10 PM..
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:29 PM
 
2,878 posts, read 3,926,633 times
Reputation: 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Quite frankly, I think you have a real fixation and agenda. I also think it's rather unbalanced. I don't think anyone has said the rural folks are more superior than city folk. You just seem to view them as having that attitude. In the main, it's probably usually quite the opposite. I would suggest you get some professional help to wean you from this obsession on a lifestyle you obviously cannot/couldn't handle.
Well, whatever. Take whatever I said any way you want. There are other people reading this and they fortunately have minds of their own to decide what to take and what to leave

OD
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Old 10-18-2012, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,490 posts, read 38,410,774 times
Reputation: 23086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Quite frankly, I think you have a real fixation and agenda. I also think it's rather unbalanced. I don't think anyone has said the rural folks are more superior than city folk. You just seem to view them as having that attitude. In the main, it's probably usually quite the opposite. I would suggest you get some professional help to wean you from this obsession on a lifestyle you obviously cannot/couldn't handle.
I think you pretty much nailed it, based on the posts I've seen.
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Old 10-18-2012, 06:45 AM
 
6,368 posts, read 14,144,608 times
Reputation: 5888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Quite frankly, I think you have a real fixation and agenda. I also think it's rather unbalanced. I don't think anyone has said the rural folks are more superior than city folk. You just seem to view them as having that attitude. In the main, it's probably usually quite the opposite. I would suggest you get some professional help to wean you from this obsession on a lifestyle you obviously cannot/couldn't handle.
Bingo
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
2,311 posts, read 3,667,669 times
Reputation: 5322
The biggest friend Helena Montana and the mountains surrounding it are land easements that are signed by the current land owner(s) that no development will ever occur on said property outside of the owners own home and business improvement needs/desires.

The Prickly Pear Land Trust: Easements

This has resulted in thousands of acres being saved from the rape and pillage by those that don't have the best interests of the land or it's inhabitants in mind.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:43 AM
 
Location: The Woods
17,096 posts, read 22,613,580 times
Reputation: 9375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend View Post
I think the guy who is going to get his game is generally probably quiet and respectful. I am talking about the family of 6 each on their own ATV, raping the path and its surroundings along the way, "recreating" themselves. Some recreation... Sitting on the couch at home, sitting on the ATV in nature. How is this "enjoying Nature" anyways when it zooms by you while you infest it with gasoline fumes and tear up the land? As for illegal driving backfiring, well - it is illegal. Enforce it better and make the penalties VERY stiff - we need to protect what we have left.
We don't have the resources to control illegal riding here. I think it better to put efforts into stopping it in the most important places and let them have their trails in the already more developed areas. I'm not a big fan of the things but the genie is out of the bottle now, they aren't going anywhere until peak oil stings more.



Quote:
Today you need money for everything. To protect and to destroy. Sad but true.
Therein lies the biggest problem with modern society. Scraps of paper are the supreme god of the masses.


Quote:

Well, push comers to shove if you want the land to be protected, people are the worst offenders. Finally, "the suburban sprawl needs to be stopped" goes directly against everyone's right (just like you want yours) to live away from high density. Apparently it is a supreme right, even over protecting Nature.
Sprawl can be controlled without directly taking away people's rights: by refusing to maintain or build new roads, not extending "services" to new developments, etc.


Quote:
Quote please , I am not sure this is so much true.
OD
Preserving Nature in the National Parks: A History (Chapter 3)
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
2,311 posts, read 3,667,669 times
Reputation: 5322
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Sprawl can be controlled without directly taking away people's rights: by refusing to maintain or build new roads, not extending "services" to new developments, etc.

This is also being done to curb growth and to stop the need for fire protection for residential housing in hard to reach areas of the mountains surrounding the Helena Montana Valley.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:49 PM
 
5,314 posts, read 5,457,287 times
Reputation: 3580
I spent 18 years growing up in a rural environment, and I now live in the city. I love the country, the animals and the people. I wouldn't trade my life growing up for anything because the values I gained in rural living will serve me for the rest of my life. The funny thing is that I love urban living now, and all the great things that come with it.

Hearing people say things like "dumb hicks" or "IQ less than 75" leads me to believe that people aren't aware of how they're socializing with the local people that they're moving near. I get the fact that people say harsh things when they're upset, but empathy must prevail, even if it's to build the foundation of a constructive conversation. People riding ATVs, trespassing, etc. are annoying, but by building some relationships and negotiating, you can usually prevail (with diligence). Having spent lots of time hunting in my youth, I can say that getting to know some of the farmers and offering help is probably the best thing you can do...and it's rewarding because farm work is humbling and fulfilling (at least to me).

In any event, rural living isn't for everyone. I can say I detest sub-divisions being built in the middle of no where. As others have echoed, the people who remain in the area are often times not the ones who sell. That sold land raises taxes and COL, moving farmers out; and farmers are the best of the best. As a society, I would love it if people were more appreciative of farmers and rural lifestyle in general. There are inconsiderate/rude people everywhere, but even rude people can be befriended with some respect and diligence.
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