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Old 02-17-2009, 05:38 PM
 
1,662 posts, read 4,044,520 times
Reputation: 537

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozarksboy View Post
OK, my mistake. I bow to your expertise. You have lived in large cities and still work in one. I am a small-towner, always been a small-towner, so I recognize that makes me a whole lot less sophisticated and knowledgeable than you about such matters. My opinions probably don't deserve respect because I've never lived anywhere except rural and small-town Missouri.
You're welcome to stop being a jerk any time now.
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Rolla, Phelps County, Ozarks, Missouri
1,069 posts, read 2,255,120 times
Reputation: 1259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha S View Post
You're welcome to stop being a jerk any time now.
Jerk? How is trying to get FormerCaliforniaGirl back out on her exercise routine being a jerk? I've given her a workable strategy. If she wants to get off the treadmill and back out into the fresh air, she's got to take action.
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,486 posts, read 38,395,203 times
Reputation: 23052
ozarksboy, I actually have no problem with leash laws - in that, a dog must be on a leash if it's off its owner's property. If a dog is in its own yard and does not leave that yard (as seems to be the case with most of the dogs that the OP mentions, and we've all agreed that one that leaves its yard and is aggressive is a serious issue), then a leash law would not be particularly effective in taking care of her particular situation.

As for "knowledgable and sophisticated", I don't know where that particular red herring came from. My point was simply, rather than being a bull in a china shop (which seems to be what you're advocating), no matter what the other inhabitants of her (or your) new community might think, try something a little different. Talk to the neighbors - all of them, even the ones who own dogs. Find out what the general feeling is regarding the problem and if it's even perceived as a problem by the majority of the people living there. Investigate and see if there's a law already in effect that, for some reason, isn't being enforced, or that is being enforced but that says that dogs in their own yards don't have to be leashed (which is how most such laws are written, in my experience - dogs that are off their owners' property must be leashed).

By the way, the idea of tying up dogs if they're in their owner's front yard? Wouldn't fly here, because a law was just pasted making it illegal to tie your dog in your yard in any way, shape or form, as it is considered to be inherently abusive. (Never mind that I've seen dogs that are tied on run lines that get plenty of exercise, have shelter, food, water, and that someone who is going to be neglectful/abusive towards their pet is going to be so whether they happen to tie them or not.) Guess where this law came from? (The State of California has an "anti-tethering" law, as well - it's statewide - so that wouldn't work where the OP comes from, either.)
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:30 PM
 
24,841 posts, read 32,879,712 times
Reputation: 11471
I know it is awful to be afraid at any time.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:25 PM
 
414 posts, read 900,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
You've got to be kidding me. All the woman wants to do is go out for a jog without being charged by an aggressive animal, and yet you're suggesting that she take on all the expense and time or dog ownership. Personally, I don't think she's being unreasonable at all.

Ok, well obviously she did not like the idea...no harm. It was a simple suggestion. I didn't say it was right, I just pointed out another option.

And, I honestly don't remember (I'm not going to read through 9 pages of this stuff again) but I don't even know if it was established that the dogs ever left their property when coming towards her. And there is really no proof that these dogs are "aggressive". If defending their territory is aggressive then yea, she probably does think that. But that is not aggressive behavior for a dog. It's NORMAL. There isn't a lot we can do about instinct.

The reality is, whether people like it or not, small towns and cities are not the same. The laws are not the same in all places b/c it is a different lifestyle. Not better or worse just different. I am not going to move to a city and expect the neighbors to understand if I forgot to pick up his poo one day. Here, that is no big deal. In a city that would NOT be ok, and I fully understand that.

Second example. I was walking my dog one night when I came across an Akita and a Lab mix walking lose in the direction I was heading. I personally was not afraid, but more afraid of the curiosity my little dog would have. They came towards me and my dog so I picked him up and went my own way and they didn't follow. They had no intent of being aggressive, they were just roaming the area...which while I may not agree with b/c they were obviously WAY past their property...they weren't going to hurt anything. My dog would have been an easy target.

Just like people have to have their dogs fenced/leashed in their yard in the city, that will probably not happen in a small town. Everyone knows everyone and their dogs. We had a lab visit our house and I tried to remember who had a lab around our place. I didn't panic b/c it was a strange and possibly "aggressive" dog...and I'm not a big person...5'1", and this was a BIG lab...I just called a few names and he came to one of them. So I took him home. I wouldn't have pepper sprayed that dog b/c he decided to roam away or got out of the house w/o a leash by mistake.

That is why many have suggested calling the owners and maybe finding out more info...if you can get their names, feed them treats etc. You just can't assume every dog that barks or comes at you is aggressive. That only feeds the fear. Get to know a little about the dogs, their owners or the breeds. It really can help. Many larger breeds are actually referred to as "gentle giants" and are considered to be excellent with children and families...so you really can't assume much by size.

The way people handle their dogs isn't going to be the same as it is in the city. It probably won't change either. We've had dogs get into our local school and university halls and still nothing has changed. It's not that big of a deal here and I bet it's similar in other small towns.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:02 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,801,532 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozarksboy View Post
Well, then, this is the wrong venue for you to get any action to solve this problem. You need to:

1) Begin your campaign to get all dogs on leashes by writing letters to the editor of your local paper,

2) Call your town council member to express your concerns about the lack of leash laws in your town, or the enforcement of whatever laws are already on the books,

3) Attend city council meetings where you can get a spot on the agenda and voice your concerns about your safety.

4) Here's a strategy that has worked very well in Rolla on several occasions: Appeal to people's concern for children. Those barking pomeranians and other larger dogs pose a danger to the safety of children of your community. When writing letters to the editor, speaking on the local radio station, talking to neighbors or addressing the town council, point out that that an unleashed pit bull, rottweiler or doberman could charge a child and do serious damage, perhaps cripple the child for life or even, heaven forbid, kill the child. In whatever you write or say, include this line: "I know folks in town don't want additional regulation but IF IT SAVES THE LIFE OF JUST ONE CHILD, it will be worth it." The council will pass a strict leash law immediately if you lay that line on them. Guaranteed. It's worked here in Rolla lots of times on various issues. The key is to always say, "If it saves the life of just one child ..."

Let me know if that works.
Hey ozarksboy....it's very interesting to read your suggestions. As a matter of fact, I was recently very disappointed when, in my city, a proposal in the city legislature was voted down....that proposal was to require that pit-bulls, when outside the owner's house, be in a contained area, and that when pit-bulls are being walked, that they have to be muzzled. There was such public outrage that there was no way the proposal could pass.

But your suggestions make much more sense to me than buying pepper spray or dog treats. I don't want to hurt the dogs, and I don't want to have to win them over with treats either. I just want the owners to accept responsibilty and keep their dogs chained when outside.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,486 posts, read 38,395,203 times
Reputation: 23052
FormerCaliforniaGirl, did you know that your former state passed a law against chaining dogs when outside?
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:36 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,801,532 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
FormerCaliforniaGirl, did you know that your former state passed a law against chaining dogs when outside?
Yes, but not under the circumstances you think. The law states that people cannot leave dogs chained unless the chain is a certain length (don't know the length) and they cannot leave them on the chains for more than a certain alloted time (I can't remember the time).

This ordinace came about because people were chaining their dogs in their yards on very short chains and leaving them there, unable to get to water or shade, 24/7. Very cruel.

When I say I want people in my neighborhood to chain their dogs, I don't mean that they should be cruel. There are NO dog owners in my neighborhood who leave their dogs out 24/7. They let them out for awhile and then take them in. I just ask that when they let them out, as a courtesy, just put them on a chain (that is a comfortable length and allows them to walk around and have access to shade and water). I don't think that's at all mean.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:42 PM
 
1,662 posts, read 4,044,520 times
Reputation: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerCaliforniaGirl View Post
I just want the owners to accept responsibilty and keep their dogs chained when outside.
I am all for dog owners being responsible. But that does not mean that every dog needs to be chained up.
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,486 posts, read 38,395,203 times
Reputation: 23052
Actually, the dog can be tethered to a run line for 3 hours a day. (I only found out that California passed this law by googling yesterday.) And, yes, I'm very well aware of why such laws are passed (usually in California first and then infecting the rest of us, sad to say, in many cases).

The thing is not whether you, personally, feeling about dogs the way you do, think that it's at all "mean" - the thing is that you are advocating something that in the state you come from has been outlawed because other people think it is.

That's one reason that I suggested you research the laws that may already be existing in your community to see if the dogs are in compliance with them, and talk to people FIRST to see if your desires are in accord with their own. It's one thing to convince a city council, quite another to live in harmony with your neighbors after you've rammed something down their throats because you want it, without first getting them on board.

And that's whether or not they say anything to your face about it. If they are on board, by all means, go for it. Just do your homework first. But, please, give your real reasons, not some "reason" that you are using only because someone on a message board gave it to you to use manipulatively. Sheesh!
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