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Old 02-20-2009, 07:53 AM
 
414 posts, read 900,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha S View Post
We've also well established in this thread that some people (especially those who have a general fear and dislike of dogs) are not able to make a distinction between "agressive menacing barking" and "friendly" or "announcement" barking made by perfectly friendly and harmless dogs.

No one in this thread has defended dogs who are truly vicious. But I grew weary of trying to help you distinguish this long ago.

For crying out loud, barking is how dogs communicate! Not every bark is a signal that a dog wants to maul you!

THANK YOU!!!!
There is a total difference between dogs "barking menacingly" and dogs that are barking to communicate, telling their owners someone is close by, are playing etc. I REFUSE to defend the dogs that attack. It is uncalled for. But I ALSO REFUSE to listen to the idea that all barking is a form of anger or aggression. That is a poorly informed assumption.

I totally agree that the dogs in the above two posts were out of control. I said in an earlier post that my husbands former neighbor had a Corgi killed by another dog. It was found dead (on the property) and nothing resulted. I find that very unfortunate and irresponsible on the owners part. If you read further in that post, I said my hubby and I had a plan in case the dog ever tried anything with our little pom.

And we may not like the things animals do, but you can't full out stop these YES NORMAL behaviors. Most (not all) are done when the animal feels threatened. I say most b/c the dogs above are NOT normal behaviors.

yes...bees sting (which these are wild insects and there is really nothing you can do to stop this except not irritate/threaten them)
........horses buck
........etc.

Most of them are actions that happen when threatened or hurt. OR as with dogs many times, the owners have not properly trained them.
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Old 02-20-2009, 08:29 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,683,788 times
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------"bees sting"----

Yup, and maybe that is why people in town don't have beehives covering their front lawn.

Dog owners could learn a lot from bee keepers.
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Old 02-20-2009, 08:43 AM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,699,389 times
Reputation: 3766
I have been following this thread from the beginning. I really feel for the OP. I am not fearful of dogs, but, like snakes, I 'respect' them.
I know people that are as afraid of them as others are of snakes.

Thank goodness I live in the country, and the nearest neighbor is 300 feet away. They have a Great Pyrenees that frequently barks when I step out of our house. That annoys me. After all, I am not even close to it's yard! It also annoys me that it choses to use my yard for it's bathroom! I hate it when I step in a dodo right outside my house! I haven't spoken to the owners about that.

We have another neighbor who also has a Great Pyrenees. It's name is Sam. It is my friend. He has never barked at me, even before coming to know me...but that family trains it's dogs. If they have an offensive dog, they do not keep it!
Sam 'patrols' our woods every day, and includes our yard in his patrol. He 'grins' at our cats. They tolerate each other with no problem.

Our cousins up the road have numerous dogs. The main problem with them is the car chasers. That annoys me, espacially the ones that bark viciously and act like they are trying to attack the car as I drive by. I hate that behavior. I used to walk the road, and do not recall having any dog threaten me then. They may bark, and if they did, I just told them to shut up! They usually minded.

A former neighbor raised small terriers. Those little varmints barked constantly! Even though they were (usually) 300 or more feet away, it was annoying. I like the sounds of birds, and breezes, not dogs!

We have always had cats. One time, many years ago, when we lived down below this 'mountain' on a ranch, a neighbor had a large dog that came into our front yard, form a distance away, and killed one of our cats. The man was/is a local Surgeon. He seemed to think he and his was more important than we and ours! Our son was at our house when the killing took place. He came out of our house with a gun, and was going to eliminate the offending dog. The owner was irate that we would be upset by a mere 'cat' being senselessly killed! I do not recall what all transpired after that, but the dog was apparently contained after that. I still have no respect for that Doctor!

The only time I was biten by a dog was when I reached out to pet a strange one, and found my hand in it's mouth! I learned right then...you do not pet strange dogs!

I agree that dogs sense when someone is afraid of them, and react to that. Generally, telling them to "SHUT UP", and "GO HOME" works. Reaching down as though you are picking up a stone usually helps also.

Again, I am definitely in sympathy with the OP. I believe her rights are being violated.

Last edited by Towhee; 02-20-2009 at 09:12 AM..
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Old 02-20-2009, 08:46 AM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,801,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha S View Post
We've also well established in this thread that some people (especially those who have a general fear and dislike of dogs) are not able to make a distinction between "agressive menacing barking" and "friendly" or "announcement" barking made by perfectly friendly and harmless dogs.

No one in this thread has defended dogs who are truly vicious. But I grew weary of trying to help you distinguish this long ago.

For crying out loud, barking is how dogs communicate! Not every bark is a signal that a dog wants to maul you!
I GUARANTEE you that I absolutely can tell the difference between "friendly" or "announcement" barking and menacing, vicious barking. I'm not a idiot, for heaven's sake! And I don't think every dog that barks at me wants to maul me. Good grief

This thread isn't about the dogs who bark at me in a friendly or announcing manner; this thread is about dogs who bark at me menacingly and are "warning" me that I'm too close to their property (remember...I walk in the street). And my point is that one can never really be certain which dogs are going to leave it at just the barking, and which dogs are going to attack. Also, even if none of the dogs ever attacked, just their snarling, growling, and vicious barking is WRONG. Owners of dogs who cannot behave in a socially acceptable manner have no business leaving their dogs out in their front yards, unsupervised, and unrestrained.

By the way...just want to let you know I've gotten over 10 private messages and numerous reputation comments about this thread. There are a lot of people who agree with me, but just aren't comfortable openingly debating here. It's good to know that I have a lot of support.
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Old 02-20-2009, 08:53 AM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,853 posts, read 30,798,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha S View Post
Where do you live? Are there not leash laws? Around here you are required to contain a dog by leash or by fence.

You might try finding out what the laws are and ask an animal control officer what he suggests doing in your situation.

Of course, you'll become known as a "that lady who hates dogs" in your neighborhood, but ....

If there are dogs that actually come at you in a threatening way, you might try talking to the owners. "You know, I am really feeling threatened by your dog. I am carrying repellent spray and if he charges me again, I'm afraid I'll have no choice but to use it. I'd really appreciate it if he were better contained."

Then you'll only become known as "that lady who's afraid of dogs."
Leash laws????? ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICER????? Not where I live, not by a long shot.

Of course, where I live there aren't any sidewalks either, so "going for a walk around the neighborhood" is not realistic. LOL

Ninety-nine percent of the dogs that you will encounter are simply bluffing to protect their "territory". If you just ignore them as you walk by, usually by the time you are past the house in question, they are happily wagging their tails going...."oh look, I did a good job", while headed back to the front porch.

Reacting in a fearful way is the worst thing you can do. Also, unless it is a big dog like a lab, GSD, Rottweiler, etc., - if it is Beagle sized, then I would just turn around and stare at the dog and GROWL yourself. I have found that this will usually freak the dog out so bad that he will go running in the other direction!

There used to be a Cairn Terrier that lived across the road who would bark and growl at me (on my own property) every time I came home from, or went to work. After growling at him a few times, he just stayed in his yard and barked at me instead of coming across the road to my property. I sure would not try this on a dog that could seriously harm me if he really got ticked off.

20yrsinBranson
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Old 02-20-2009, 09:23 AM
 
1,662 posts, read 4,044,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerCaliforniaGirl View Post
I GUARANTEE you that I absolutely can tell the difference between "friendly" or "announcement" barking and menacing, vicious barking.[deleted from the quote as I don't think you are an idiot] And I don't think every dog that barks at me wants to maul me. Good grief
Sorry, but your posts in this thread indicate otherwise to me. Even your next paragraph indicates otherwise:

Quote:
This thread isn't about the dogs who bark at me in a friendly or announcing manner; this thread is about dogs who bark at me menacingly and are "warning" me that I'm too close to their property (remember...I walk in the street). And my point is that one can never really be certain which dogs are going to leave it at just the barking, and which dogs are going to attack. Also, even if none of the dogs ever attacked, just their snarling, growling, and vicious barking is WRONG. Owners of dogs who cannot behave in a socially acceptable manner have no business leaving their dogs out in their front yards, unsupervised, and unrestrained.
I've seen plenty of dogs bark to announce, "This is MY yard! And I will protect it! Hey Owner! There's someone close to our yard!"

It may very well sound vicious to you, but it isn't meant to be by the dog. The dog is just doing his "job". Sometimes the dog is "showing off" a little too. And while that may be annoying, it is hardly "vicious".

I can see where it can be very difficult to know the difference to a non-dog-person. And I feel bad for you about that. I'm sure it's very disconcerting. But I'd be willing to bet that more than 9 out of 10 dogs that you are describing as "vicious" would not be described as such by someone who was not generally afraid of dogs.

This is why the advice you've been given in this thread has been geared mainly toward helping you overcome your fears and suggesting ways for you to more easily get along with NORMAL dogs.


Quote:
By the way...just want to let you know I've gotten over 10 private messages and numerous reputation comments about this thread. There are a lot of people who agree with me, but just aren't comfortable openingly debating here. It's good to know that I have a lot of support.
Yes, it's good to know you have support! It's also good to try to put some perspective on an issue such as this.
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Old 02-20-2009, 09:40 AM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,853 posts, read 30,798,948 times
Reputation: 22404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha S View Post
Sorry, but your posts in this thread indicate otherwise to me. Even your next paragraph indicates otherwise:

I've seen plenty of dogs bark to announce, "This is MY yard! And I will protect it! Hey Owner! There's someone close to our yard!"

It may very well sound vicious to you, but it isn't meant to be by the dog. The dog is just doing his "job". Sometimes the dog is "showing off" a little too. And while that may be annoying, it is hardly "vicious".

I can see where it can be very difficult to know the difference to a non-dog-person. And I feel bad for you about that. I'm sure it's very disconcerting. But I'd be willing to bet that more than 9 out of 10 dogs that you are describing as "vicious" would not be described as such by someone who was not generally afraid of dogs.

This is why the advice you've been given in this thread has been geared mainly toward helping you overcome your fears and suggesting ways for you to more easily get along with NORMAL dogs.


Yes, it's good to know you have support! It's also good to try to put some perspective on an issue such as this.
I agree with you that *most* dogs are not menacing and not vicious when they are barking to alert their owners. However, you cannot be too careful about it. I will never forget one time (naive fool that I was) the day I tried to make "friends" with two guard dogs that protected a business establishment near where I lived. They did NOT bark. They did NOT growl. But as I approached their chain-link enclosure with the typical "here doggy doggy doggy" mentality, they both came unglued and were so ferocious that I thought they were actually going to break through the fence and kill me.

It is good to have a lot of healthy respect for dogs, especially big ones who can cause a lot of damage.

Best to walk elsewhere. Maybe around the track at your local high school? That is what I do when I feel the occasional urge to exercise.

20yrsinBranson
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,487 posts, read 38,404,041 times
Reputation: 23066
One thing I kept forgetting to mention.

Since I'm a real estate agent, I'm frequently actually going into houses next door to houses that have dogs, dogs that KNOW that I'm not someone that habitually goes into that house. In fact, I'm probably exposed to barking dogs a lot more than the OP is, albeit most of them fenced.

I've found that, fenced or not, when the dog starts barking at me clearly intending to say, as indicated above, "This is MY yard! Don't approach without permission from my owner!", if I say, "Good dog!" in a happy voice and mean it, the dog gets confused enough to stop barking. Or, sometimes, starts wagging its tail and thinking that it would be really cool if I came over and petted it since I clearly recognize the fine manner in which it's doing its job. On some occasions, the dog may try barking again after stopping, and I repeat as necessary.

Doesn't work on all dogs, but on enough that it's a useful tool.
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:25 AM
 
1,662 posts, read 4,044,973 times
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My brother used to have a black lab. Sweetest dog ever. But protective.

One day his kids and a bunch of neighborhood kids were playing in his fenced back yard. "Griffy" was also back there, playing and "protecting".

My brother looked out his window to see another kid's dad come into the back yard to pick up his own kid.

But Griffy didn't know the adult and that this was his child. To Griffy, it was some stranger coming to take one of the kids he was protecting! Fortunately, my brother made it to the back yard just as the dad reached down to pick up the kid and dog was inches away ready to "defend" the child.

Now to an outsider, Griffy may very well have seemed like a horrible "vicious" dog. He was "barking menacingly". His teeth were barred and he may very well have even clamped his teeth on the guy's leg. (Note, that this type of "holding" is different than "biting" although the result is often the same. Dogs don't have hands!)

But the truth is, that Griffy was trained to "protect" and that's exactly what he thought he was doing! He needed to be told that it was okay for the guy to take the child.
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:31 AM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,699,389 times
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I wonder if anyone has ever started a thread with all the maulings done by 'friendly' dogs? An awful lot of them are little children that are mauled, and even killed.
Naturally, there are those who claim the child 'provoked' the attack!
I believe that any dog is capable of turning on someone...even the friendly Sam next door, that I befriend. Regardless if what anyone says, they are still animals, with animal instincts.
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