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Old 02-20-2009, 10:48 AM
 
1,662 posts, read 4,044,973 times
Reputation: 537

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Towhee View Post
I wonder if anyone has ever started a thread with all the maulings done by 'friendly' dogs? An awful lot of them are little children that are mauled, and even killed.
Naturally, there are those who claim the child 'provoked' the attack!
I believe that any dog is capable of turning on someone...even the friendly Sam next door, that I befriend. Regardless if what anyone says, they are still animals, with animal instincts.
I WILL NOT defend the behavior of a dog who attacks unprovoked. But for every story of someone hurt by a dog, there are countless stories of people assisted, protected and loved by wonderful dogs.

Any dog with the propensity to attack unprovoked should be contained at ALL times. PERIOD. (It could even be argued that such dogs should be euthanized.)

Any dog that is "easily provoked" should be contained at ALL times. PERIOD. If you live in a neighborhood with kids, you have to assume that a child might accidentally excite your dog and YOU are still responsible for the dog's behavior.

ALL DOGS should be within the control of their owners AT ALL times. PERIOD. If your dog hurts someone who was within his rights to be wherever he was - then YOU are responsible. END OF STORY. (Even in my story above, I would have held my brother responsible if Griffy had hurt the dad.)

But if my dog is in my yard and remains in my yard. And happens to bark at you as you walk by, you will get no apology from me. And if the dog is trained to stay in my yard, I'm not tying her up. Sorry. She is a normal, friendly dog even if she might seem "vicious" to you when she barks.
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:48 AM
 
985 posts, read 2,374,519 times
Reputation: 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towhee View Post
I wonder if anyone has ever started a thread with all the maulings done by 'friendly' dogs? An awful lot of them are little children that are mauled, and even killed.
Naturally, there are those who claim the child 'provoked' the attack!
I believe that any dog is capable of turning on someone...even the friendly Sam next door, that I befriend. Regardless if what anyone says, they are still animals, with animal instincts.
That is why an adult should be with the child when he/she is around a large dog. This is not the dogs fault, it's the fault of whomever is responsible for the child. And, there are kids that do purposefully provoke animals it's rare but it does happen.
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:57 AM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,801,737 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha S View Post
My brother used to have a black lab. Sweetest dog ever. But protective.

One day his kids and a bunch of neighborhood kids were playing in his fenced back yard. "Griffy" was also back there, playing and "protecting".

My brother looked out his window to see another kid's dad come into the back yard to pick up his own kid.

But Griffy didn't know the adult and that this was his child. To Griffy, it was some stranger coming to take one of the kids he was protecting! Fortunately, my brother made it to the back yard just as the dad reached down to pick up the kid and dog was inches away ready to "defend" the child.

Now to an outsider, Griffy may very well have seemed like a horrible "vicious" dog. He was "barking menacingly". His teeth were barred and he may very well have even clamped his teeth on the guy's leg. (Note, that this type of "holding" is different than "biting" although the result is often the same. Dogs don't have hands!)

But the truth is, that Griffy was trained to "protect" and that's exactly what he thought he was doing! He needed to be told that it was okay for the guy to take the child.
Pet dogs should not be expected to defend and protect their families. It's this type of behavior that owners reward and perpetuate that leads to nuisance dogs who menace and are a threat to people.

If you think your family needs protecting, then deal with whatever it is you think is threatening your family. But to train and/or encourage a dog's natural instinct to be aggressive toward strangers is no worse than walking around with a loaded gun. Pet dogs need to have their instinct to protect trained out of them, so that they can be trusted around people. I mean, let's face it. Male dogs have a natural instinct to hump everything in site...but you train that out of them, right? Not every natural canine instinct is a good one.

To expect innocent people who are NO THREAT to your property and family to accept and condone your dog's misguided need to protect is just plain wrong.

"Griffy" is a dangerous dog. And he (or she?) could very easily have injured the man picking up his child. And anybody who would defend that by saying, "Oh....poor Griffy was just protecting the kids" truly doesn't get it.
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,487 posts, read 38,404,041 times
Reputation: 23066
I think that perhaps you may be the one who doesn't get it, FormerCaliforniaGirl. In fact, I know that you don't get that what most of us have been trying to do is to help you with your fear of dogs who are not harming you but simply barking at you.

Since, as said a few times, none of us can do a thing about the owners of the dogs or the dogs themselves, and since you are going to be living in a world where there are dogs, some of whom don't have any owners, and since the world isn't likely to be changed in its entirety to fit your idea of how it should be, it seems more productive to give you tools with which to deal with the many dogs that you are likely to encounter in your life.
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:08 AM
 
1,662 posts, read 4,044,973 times
Reputation: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerCaliforniaGirl View Post
Pet dogs should not be expected to defend and protect their families. ....

Griffy is a dangerous dog. And he (or she?) could very easily have injured the man picking up his child. And anybody who would defend that by saying, "Oh....poor Griffy was just protecting the kids" truly doesn't get it.
Well, one of us "doesn't get it", that's for sure.

Did you miss above where I said I would NOT have defended the dog had he hurt the guy? Seriously ... I gotta get off this broken record. You have a great day and I do agree with you that it's best you stick to the treadmill.
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:14 AM
 
1,662 posts, read 4,044,973 times
Reputation: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerCaliforniaGirl View Post
Pet dogs should not be expected to defend and protect their families.
No, I'm sorry, I have to say one more thing:

This line is about the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Griffy would have been willing to DIE protecting that child, without hesitation, as would any other dog who is part of a family protect its loved ones to the death.

The most admired characteristic of dogs is that they are LOYAL to their owners and would protect and defend them to the end! To suggest that this characteristic be "trained out of them" is beyond me.

Okay ... I promise ... I'm done now.
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:40 AM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,801,737 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
I think that perhaps you may be the one who doesn't get it, FormerCaliforniaGirl. In fact, I know that you don't get that what most of us have been trying to do is to help you with your fear of dogs who are not harming you but simply barking at you.

Since, as said a few times, none of us can do a thing about the owners of the dogs or the dogs themselves, and since you are going to be living in a world where there are dogs, some of whom don't have any owners, and since the world isn't likely to be changed in its entirety to fit your idea of how it should be, it seems more productive to give you tools with which to deal with the many dogs that you are likely to encounter in your life.
No, I do not for one minute think that you are trying to "help me with a fear of dogs". I think you are a fanatic dog lover who doesn't see my point.

It is my intent to protest dog owners using their dogs as weapons to ward off strangers. Or, to a lesser degree, being careless and reckless and not training their dogs to be socially acceptable. Barking dogs are a public nuisance...no matter what their reason is for barking. Barking dogs who are aggressive, are dangerous. And the excuse that they're just protecting their property doesn't fly with me.
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:43 AM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,801,737 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha S View Post
No, I'm sorry, I have to say one more thing:

This line is about the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Griffy would have been willing to DIE protecting that child, without hesitation, as would any other dog who is part of a family protect its loved ones to the death.

The most admired characteristic of dogs is that they are LOYAL to their owners and would protect and defend them to the end! To suggest that this characteristic be "trained out of them" is beyond me.

Okay ... I promise ... I'm done now.
THAT is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard! The truth is not so much that Griffy would have been willing to die protecting the child; rather, that Griffy would have been willing to KILL OR INJURE AN INNOCENT MAN who was no threat to the child, in its misguided attempt to protect its loved ones.
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,487 posts, read 38,404,041 times
Reputation: 23066
I see your point. I disagree with it, and I suspect it arises out of fear and a desire that society arrange itself around your fear and, indeed, your preferences (by your own admission, you believe that even a barking dog that is not a threat to you because of its reason for barking is a nuisance). Not at all uncommon, really (the desire that society arrange itself around our individual, personal preferences). But just as much a public nuisance as a barking dog, when you come right down to it.
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:48 AM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,801,737 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha S View Post
No, I'm sorry, I have to say one more thing:

This line is about the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Griffy would have been willing to DIE protecting that child, without hesitation, as would any other dog who is part of a family protect its loved ones to the death.

The most admired characteristic of dogs is that they are LOYAL to their owners and would protect and defend them to the end! To suggest that this characteristic be "trained out of them" is beyond me.

Okay ... I promise ... I'm done now.
THAT is the most ridiculous things I have ever heard! The truth is not so much that Griffy would have been willing to die protecting the child; rather, that Griffy would have been willing to KILL OR INJURE AN INNOCENT MAN who was no threat to the child, in its misguided attempt to protect its loved ones.

And to Texashorselady...you cannot stop harping on my supposed fear of dogs. You trivialize this matter as if it's simply me being frightened of little doggies who are saying hello to me as I pass by. But you know good and well that's not what this thread is about. You are very adept at twisting my words, but the fact remains that you seem very clueless and close-minded on this matter.
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