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Old 03-21-2009, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,965,025 times
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Interesting

I just happen to be a former SoCal resident that has been fighting (against)Illegal Immigration for many years.

World Dairy Diary » Labor
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Old 03-24-2009, 03:00 PM
 
1,297 posts, read 3,158,802 times
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I got one near me that is hiring.

Another place to try is over on AgDay. They have a forum teeming with dairy farm discussions. For what it is worth,the people on there seemto be culling their cows while the farms here are all increasingtheir herd size. I am not sure why that is,but its not just us...everyone in the county is getting bigger.

Marmac is right in many ways however. My neighbor is looking for experienced help, and with the downturn in the economy, on our farm we have a lot of people looking for work. Our farm is set for workers, but hey it changes quick. Unfortunately we do not pay much, but neither is the wholesale price of milk these days either.

(Sorry I missed this thread mkfarnam. You sound like a very reputable person teeming with integrity. I wish you the best in finding a place to work.)
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,425 posts, read 45,088,452 times
Reputation: 10404
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTap View Post
I got one near me that is hiring.

Another place to try is over on AgDay. They have a forum teeming with dairy farm discussions. For what it is worth,the people on there seemto be culling their cows while the farms here are all increasingtheir herd size. I am not sure why that is,but its not just us...everyone in the county is getting bigger.

Marmac is right in many ways however. My neighbor is looking for experienced help, and with the downturn in the economy, on our farm we have a lot of people looking for work. Our farm is set for workers, but hey it changes quick. Unfortunately we do not pay much, but neither is the wholesale price of milk these days either.

(Sorry I missed this thread mkfarnam. You sound like a very reputable person teeming with integrity. I wish you the best in finding a place to work.)
Can you tell why ranchs and dairy farms pay so badly? Do they just consider it unskilled work or is farming that unprofitable? You commented wholesale prices of milk is bad. Is this why pay is low? What kind of money is in farming?

Geez I just spent quite a few days at the Houston Rodeo and livestock show and the top Steers were sold for $300,000 with many in lower 6 figures. $300,000 for a freakin Cow?!?!?!?! One young farm hand told me the price reflects the quality of the meat. Yikes man the 10 oz steak you order might cost $50 grand. How good can it be???

Help us who dont understand with this.
Thanks
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Old 03-24-2009, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,965,025 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTap View Post
I got one near me that is hiring.

Another place to try is over on AgDay. They have a forum teeming with dairy farm discussions. For what it is worth,the people on there seemto be culling their cows while the farms here are all increasingtheir herd size. I am not sure why that is,but its not just us...everyone in the county is getting bigger.

Marmac is right in many ways however. My neighbor is looking for experienced help, and with the downturn in the economy, on our farm we have a lot of people looking for work. Our farm is set for workers, but hey it changes quick. Unfortunately we do not pay much, but neither is the wholesale price of milk these days either.

(Sorry I missed this thread mkfarnam. You sound like a very reputable person teeming with integrity. I wish you the best in finding a place to work.)
Thank You.....do you have a link to that forum?
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Old 03-24-2009, 11:03 PM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,686,634 times
Reputation: 8170
ILLEGALS have a lot to do with farm hand wages being low.

Big dairies start up from scratch and hire illegals.
Since the big dairies can put a lot of milk on the market in a short time, the milk price drops.

Smaller dairy farms see their milk checks get smaller and sure can't pay higher wages than the big dairy does who employs ILLEGALS.

There is a big dairy in my state who employs ILLEGALS.
They started by putting up a 5,000 cow dairy on farm land in an area that had no dairy farms. He then put up the 2nd 5,000 cow dairy, then the 3rd 5,000 cow dairy.

Someone asked the owner when he will have enough. He replied--" when I have 30,000 total cows"

I wish the govt would crack down on illegals so the playing field is level.

Yes, this is America, home of free enterprise, but I don't think asking a person to use legal money for financing and legal labor to run it is violating free enterprize.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,965,025 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
ILLEGALS have a lot to do with farm hand wages being low.

Big dairies start up from scratch and hire illegals.
Since the big dairies can put a lot of milk on the market in a short time, the milk price drops.

Smaller dairy farms see their milk checks get smaller and sure can't pay higher wages than the big dairy does who employs ILLEGALS.

There is a big dairy in my state who employs ILLEGALS.
They started by putting up a 5,000 cow dairy on farm land in an area that had no dairy farms. He then put up the 2nd 5,000 cow dairy, then the 3rd 5,000 cow dairy.

Someone asked the owner when he will have enough. He replied--" when I have 30,000 total cows"

I wish the govt would crack down on illegals so the playing field is level.

Yes, this is America, home of free enterprise, but I don't think asking a person to use legal money for financing and legal labor to run it is violating free enterprize.
marmac, Thank You for the information. Unfortunatly, I was affraid of this. After living in SoCal for over 30 years, I am a very strong Advocate against Illegal Immigration.
I guess I was just playing stupid about this because, I'm a member of MCDC ( Minutemen Civil Defense Corp), I've help fight for the raids on the "Agriproccessing plants(poultry Meat packing plants) and presently I'm fighting for the use of E-Verify.
I am also with several other Anti-Illegal Immigration group, www.NumbersUSA.com, www.alipac.us, FireCoalition,ECT
I am am very disappointed with the supressed wages. It's an insult to any of those with years of experience under they're belt.
Even when I was younger, I remember hearing about the Corperate Farms taking over the Small Farms. That's what brought my interest back to Farming. So in the early 80's I joined the "National Grange and Agricultural Association"
If you note, I have posted over 5000 post. Most can be found on the "Immigration" forum.
I'm the type of person who likes to help others, like those self-sufficient, help save money anyway I can. My Occupation is "Equipment Repair". I've always wanted to get into farming equipment..............now I have a reason.

Last edited by mkfarnam; 03-25-2009 at 12:48 AM..
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Old 03-25-2009, 05:15 AM
 
1,297 posts, read 3,158,802 times
Reputation: 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
Can you tell why ranchs and dairy farms pay so badly? Do they just consider it unskilled work or is farming that unprofitable? You commented wholesale prices of milk is bad. Is this why pay is low? What kind of money is in farming?

Geez I just spent quite a few days at the Houston Rodeo and livestock show and the top Steers were sold for $300,000 with many in lower 6 figures. $300,000 for a freakin Cow?!?!?!?! One young farm hand told me the price reflects the quality of the meat. Yikes man the 10 oz steak you order might cost $50 grand. How good can it be???

Help us who dont understand with this.
Thanks
The problem with farm labor is that a farm encompasses a lot of different "hats". For instance for the past four hours I have been working on my farm taxes. That sort of task is above what you would pay a farm hand to do, so its value on a per hour basis is more of what an accountant would get. The same can be said for planning cash flow for the following year; like the previous example that is more of what a CEO would do. Yet in a few minutes when I go out and feed my sheep, that is merely a laborers job which requires little knowledge and a little work. Since I could grab a kid off the street to do that, it is really a low paying task.

So if you follow me here, you will see in the past few hours I have done a few hours worth of work at say $50 bucks an hour, some work at $500 bucks an hour and some at $8 bucks an hour. That is how you have to look at farming and labor.

The fact is, we do not have enough cows to justify a farm hand that can do all these rolls. There are times when we need to give a cow meds, twist a stomach back into place,and rebuild diesel engines. In the few times this occurs, the family steps up and fills those roles. What we need right now is a Farm Manager to replace a family member that is 70 years old and tending to her husband sick with cancer. Considering the scope and importance of that job, that will pay well. It will also require a degree in agriculture. The other role we need is farm hands to milk cows. That is bare bones simple laborer's work and it pays as such. Evrything else we can do ourselves, and in fact that is my role now...to step inand help any of the farms in the family if they need help.

The problem that Marmac, Mkfarnam and myself fall under is, we are experienced farmers, but lack a degree in agriculture to put us in th running for a Farm Manger position. At the same time no farm would hire anyone in the intermediate range, at least without seeing if they can prove they know what to do around cows and truly have stamina and experience. Until then they are paid low wages. But when you get a little age on you, you also have wives,childrenand other responsibilities...it's hard to start out out at these wages and make things work. What we are seeing now is people losing their jobs and willing to reduce their standard of living just to keep the kids fed and in a house.

BEWARE

Now this is what really angers me, but for some reason is accepted. There are "Internships" that are advertised that promote "teaching the lessons of farming", but what it really amounts to is slave labor in my opinion. One near me is posting a job that pays $100 bucks a week for 6 days labor at 8 hours per day!

What they call education in farming is actually a misnomer because its hard labor. Because I live near a renowned environmental college, the "farms" as we call them, use these "interns" all the time. I have talked with these people and they all have a reoccuring theme, they learned very little and did a whole lot of work for very little money. Call it what you will, but I feel that is deception. If there are others out thereblooking for farm-type jobs, please beware of this situation. If you do decide to enter into one of these arrangements, at least you wre forewarned. As I said, I hate to see anyone get taken advantage of.
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Old 03-25-2009, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,965,025 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTap View Post
The problem with farm labor is that a farm encompasses a lot of different "hats". For instance for the past four hours I have been working on my farm taxes. That sort of task is above what you would pay a farm hand to do, so its value on a per hour basis is more of what an accountant would get. The same can be said for planning cash flow for the following year; like the previous example that is more of what a CEO would do. Yet in a few minutes when I go out and feed my sheep, that is merely a laborers job which requires little knowledge and a little work. Since I could grab a kid off the street to do that, it is really a low paying task.

So if you follow me here, you will see in the past few hours I have done a few hours worth of work at say $50 bucks an hour, some work at $500 bucks an hour and some at $8 bucks an hour. That is how you have to look at farming and labor.

The fact is, we do not have enough cows to justify a farm hand that can do all these rolls. There are times when we need to give a cow meds, twist a stomach back into place,and rebuild diesel engines. In the few times this occurs, the family steps up and fills those roles. What we need right now is a Farm Manager to replace a family member that is 70 years old and tending to her husband sick with cancer. Considering the scope and importance of that job, that will pay well. It will also require a degree in agriculture. The other role we need is farm hands to milk cows. That is bare bones simple laborer's work and it pays as such. Evrything else we can do ourselves, and in fact that is my role now...to step inand help any of the farms in the family if they need help.

The problem that Marmac, Mkfarnam and myself fall under is, we are experienced farmers, but lack a degree in agriculture to put us in th running for a Farm Manger position. At the same time no farm would hire anyone in the intermediate range, at least without seeing if they can prove they know what to do around cows and truly have stamina and experience. Until then they are paid low wages. But when you get a little age on you, you also have wives,childrenand other responsibilities...it's hard to start out out at these wages and make things work. What we are seeing now is people losing their jobs and willing to reduce their standard of living just to keep the kids fed and in a house.

BEWARE

Now this is what really angers me, but for some reason is accepted. There are "Internships" that are advertised that promote "teaching the lessons of farming", but what it really amounts to is slave labor in my opinion. One near me is posting a job that pays $100 bucks a week for 6 days labor at 8 hours per day!

What they call education in farming is actually a misnomer because its hard labor. Because I live near a renowned environmental college, the "farms" as we call them, use these "interns" all the time. I have talked with these people and they all have a reoccuring theme, they learned very little and did a whole lot of work for very little money. Call it what you will, but I feel that is deception. If there are others out thereblooking for farm-type jobs, please beware of this situation. If you do decide to enter into one of these arrangements, at least you wre forewarned. As I said, I hate to see anyone get taken advantage of.
I understand what you mean. and I agree.
I doubt that my seniority would even qualify these days.
To learn basic farming, you need to learn that pretty much 'hands on"
The only "modern" equipment we had were milking machines. Most of our discing, dragging, plowing, planting, bailing and harvesting equipment was shared with 4 other farms within a 25mile radius.
Our milking machines were the (vacuum) type where a strap goes across the cows back with a rod underneath to hang the milking machine on.
Some people don't realize that the cow still needs to be stripped after the MM is finished.
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Old 03-26-2009, 02:53 AM
 
1,297 posts, read 3,158,802 times
Reputation: 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
I understand what you mean. and I agree.
I doubt that my seniority would even qualify these days.
To learn basic farming, you need to learn that pretty much 'hands on"
The only "modern" equipment we had were milking machines. Most of our discing, dragging, plowing, planting, bailing and harvesting equipment was shared with 4 other farms within a 25mile radius.
Our milking machines were the (vacuum) type where a strap goes across the cows back with a rod underneath to hang the milking machine on.
Some people don't realize that the cow still needs to be stripped after the MM is finished.
Yeah that is a bit of the old school farming for sure. Nothing wrong with that, but things have changed of course. We still disc and plant, but plowing, dragging and bailing hay are no longer used on our farm, and perhaps someday the discing will get eliminated too.

I went to a meeting yesterday where they wanted to start doing some more trials on no-till farming. This was something we did back in the 1990's but it did not work too well. With new GM corn though, and disc technology, it might work a little better now.

As for stripping, we hand strip out the cows before and after milking them. We do so first to check for mastitis, and then to make sure no milk remains behind to cause mastitis.
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Old 03-29-2009, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,178 posts, read 9,538,452 times
Reputation: 9580
Around here, there aren't a LOT of dairy farms but there are a lot of cattle ranches. Can you rope ride, brand, and vet cattle in the field? If so, you might try looking at (or placing an ad in) the ag papers like AgAds.com or Midwest Producer, or looking through them. Here is a link that has links to many such publications in the Midwest -http://www.livestockroundup.net/

I know that a lot of the ranches hire here by word of mouth; a fella tells a fella that he heard of the ranch two ranches over that is hiring... We have a few folk who come and go, and rent houses in our little town -whole families sometimes - going from ranch job to ranch job. And they are not illegals just ranch people who would rather do ranch work than sit in cubicles, and raise their kids to do the same.
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