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Old 05-11-2009, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Tennessee/Michigan
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Barr Township, PA (AHN) - Two families who belong to an ultraconservative Amish sect were locked out of their homes Monday over the way they dispose of sewage.

The Miller and Swartenzentruver families were ordered out of their homes because they were using an outhouse and spreading the waste on their fields without proper treatment.

Amish Families Evicted Over Sewage Spreading | AHN | May 12, 2009 (http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7015101315 - broken link)
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John1960 View Post
Barr Township, PA (AHN) - Two families who belong to an ultraconservative Amish sect were locked out of their homes Monday over the way they dispose of sewage.

The Miller and Swartenzentruver families were ordered out of their homes because they were using an outhouse and spreading the waste on their fields without proper treatment.

Amish Families Evicted Over Sewage Spreading | AHN | May 12, 2009 (http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7015101315 - broken link)
Unfortunately they are at fault here.

I have Amish in my town too, and while we work along with them, when it comes to environmental law...and what could contaminate the ground water...then the religious aspect of things does not protect them.

The fact is, the state is NOT forcing them to stop using outhouses...they are requiring them not to dispose of sludge indiscriminately in fields without a CNMP (Comprehensive Nutrient Management Plan). As a farmer I cannot do that this either, on my own farm or on leased land from others. A CNMP is all important on ANY farm because it studies how much nutrient retention the soil can handle, based on the toxicity of the nutrients applied, and the volume of that waste. If the Amish have 10 acres, 6 horses, a dozen sheep and a milking cow, then yes by simply spreading their human waste on that land could contaminate the neighbors via nutrient run-off. Only a CNMP can figure that out though.

The Amish here could easily abide by the rules if they contained their human waste in their outhouse, obtained a CNMP to have it spread on-farm, or could have it hauled away to proper disposal areas (just as the rest of us do when we have our septic tanks pumped). A number of viable options are present here that would still allow them to maintain their way of life.

I concur that the Amish are unique, but they do not deserve to be given blatent rights to violate common agricultural practices of 2009 because of that uniqueness.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:09 PM
 
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Public health trumps religious freedom. Nothing to see here, move along.
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Western Hoosierland
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Agreed ^
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:32 AM
 
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Default Amish are NOT special!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTap View Post
I concur that the Amish are unique, but they do not deserve to be given blatent rights to violate common agricultural practices of 2009 because of that uniqueness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugZub View Post
Public health trumps religious freedom. Nothing to see here, move along.
The Amish are not one whole class of people, there are many varieties, there are some who refuse to accept the world has kept turning and that it is moving past them faster than they are willing to acclimate. The ones who do not follow the environmental, social, and animal laws of their state should be held just as accountable as the rest of us. Being different does not provide a cloak of immunity to doing harm to the land or others.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTap View Post
I concur that the Amish are unique, but they do not deserve to be given blatent rights to violate common agricultural practices of 2009 because of that uniqueness.
Some years back I was in Pennsylvania on a horse and quilt expedition. My best friend was with me.

In our travels, we stopped at a winery that was having wine tastings and got into conversation with the proprietor. There happened to be a drought at the time, and talk turned to its effects on the farmers in the area. All of whom were having a REALLY hard time, except, she said, for the Amish, who for some strange reason weren't having any problem with their crops at all.

Of course, the explanation was obvious to me. Because of the antiquated farming systems they were using (developed long before the "common agricultural practices" of the modern time), and the way they took care of their land, it was able to hold what moisture there was much better and their crops survived better. And thus they survived better. The crops of those who depended on the modern practices weren't doing so well, in comparison.

Just food for thought for those who think that "latest and greatest" is always better. It's a little bit more complicated than that.
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
Because of the antiquated farming systems they were using (developed long before the "common agricultural practices" of the modern time), and the way they took care of their land, it was able to hold what moisture there was much better and their crops survived better. And thus they survived better. The crops of those who depended on the modern practices weren't doing so well, in comparison.
Yes and the addition of genetically modified crops, artificial fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, lack of proper soil minerals and pH, irrigating with chemically treated water, and so on do not help. Plants were not designed to grow in that mess. They come out altered, poisoned, and nutritionally deficient.

As for the sludge, I agree that it should be handled more carefully (broken down) before tossing it around.

Last edited by nomore07; 05-15-2009 at 11:08 AM..
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:38 AM
 
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maybe the drought has less affect on Amish due to the low planting population rates many of them use.

Planting at 16,000 kernals per acre takes less rainfall to produce a crop than planting 30,000 plants per acre.

However, in a normal year the 16,000 planting rate will yield much less bushels.

Most farmers plant based on normal years , cuz to plant every year "in case" a drought hits is not profitable.
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Old 05-15-2009, 12:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomore07 View Post
Yes and the addition of genetically modified crops, artificial fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, lack of proper soil minerals and pH, irrigating with chemically treated water, and so on do not help. Plants were not designed to grow in that mess. They come out altered, poisoned, and nutritionally deficient.
Interesting...I use all of these tools to help me farm and yet my soil is at optimum levels

I use GM Corn seed
I use Urea as a fertilizer (though it is not as commonly used as manure)
I have sprayed pesticides (though a lot less thanks to GM seed)
I have used Herbicides (a lot more when using no-till farming)

As for...
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomore07 View Post
lack of proper soil minerals and pH
I have no clue what you are talking about. You cross reference what you have for soils, what you have for a crop and try to replenish what the crop took out of the soil so your crop will be just as vibrant year after year. That is just how it works. You cannot load your soil up with minerals and be happy. It is a balance, but I suspect you mean a lack of organic matter, which there again I am at optimum levels on despite my modern farming methods.

As for the PH, that too you must match to the crop you are trying to grow. Unfortunately that has nothing to do with the farmer. The soil here is extremely low in ph at 5.2 and so we are constantly trying to get it to 6 or better. Until our cows can produce milk on pine needles we are going to have to add lime to adjust our PH so we can make milk.
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Old 05-15-2009, 12:06 PM
 
1,297 posts, read 3,158,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
maybe the drought has less affect on Amish due to the low planting population rates many of them use.

Planting at 16,000 kernals per acre takes less rainfall to produce a crop than planting 30,000 plants per acre.

However, in a normal year the 16,000 planting rate will yield much less bushels.

Most farmers plant based on normal years , cuz to plant every year "in case" a drought hits is not profitable.
30,000 plants per acre...try 64,000 plants per acre. With choppers that do not need to harvest in rows, the population densities have increased dramatically. Gone are the 36 inch wide rows and in its place are broadcast applications of corn seed.

(Not arguing with you, just letting you know stocking rates are way up now).
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