U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Rural and Small Town Living
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-21-2015, 12:00 PM
 
11,257 posts, read 44,330,395 times
Reputation: 15083

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
Hmm...I might agree with you except that I read once in Colorado, people were moving in on 40 acre ranchettes and not keeping their dogs confined. There was a lot of anger at a farmer who shot one of those free running dogs. Why does a rancher get a free pass to let his cattle roam but still gets to shoot a free roaming dog? Just curious.

The cattle are livestock, and they're treated as such by what have proven to be a reasonable system of land management which has been embodied into law.

OTOH, dogs can exhibit predator behavior towards prey animals, such as livestock. Even if they're just "playing" by running livestock, they are causing damage to the animals. Such exertion can run livestock to death, or cause major health problems which all result in a significant financial loss to the owner.

Case in point: we've learned through the years the difference between a coyote attack and a dog attack on our livestock. Just this last week, I lost a $350 breeding ewe to a dog attack, where her throat was ripped open by a stray dog on my ranch. The attack took place in one of my corrals just 100' away from my house. Dogs attack and kill just for recreation ... a coyote, at least, is looking for a meal.

It's not uncommon for the sweetest, nicest behaved friendly family pet pooch to gather up into a pack with other dogs and exhibit these behaviors. The last time I shot a dog on my place which I was alerted to by seeing my sheep flock running back and forth throughout a pasture rather than eating the hay fed them that morning ... I caught three dogs in the pack. All owned by new neighbors who thought moving to the country gave them the right to just open the door and let Fido run free to do as he wanted each day. Not so ... and the deputy I called was kind enough to explain to the neighbors that they owed me for the livestock loss, too.


Myself, I would never move anywhere and just let my own dog roam. I believe in keeping animals confined so they don't get out and cause any problems and I'd hope if they get out accidentally, someone would let me know and not shoot them.

I've always welcomed our new neighbors with a friendly visit to offer my assistance and introduce myself. By the same token, I've also seen them move here with aggressive hunting breed dogs which may instinctively and naturally want to "hunt" prey if they don't otherwise have a job.

I've returned stray roaming dogs back to their owners many times over the past decades, and let them know my concerns for my livestock. In some cases, I've given up on returning the dogs and take them into town to the animal shelter. It costs the owner some money to get their dog back, and I always hope that it will be a reminder that they need to be a more responsible pet owner. Unfortunately, in some cases, they don't seem to get the message and sooner or later, their dogs get shot by other neighbors with less tolerance for livestock interference than I have. To the best of my knowledge, none of the dogs were shot simply for being out, they were all caught running or attacking livestock.

I'm sure that your neighbors appreciate your care and consideration with your own dogs.


As for cows breaking out of their pasture, I just finished reading Ben K. Green's book "Wild Cow Tales, and I think cows break out and go gallivanting around just because they're cows.
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, even for a cow.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-21-2015, 02:52 PM
 
2,878 posts, read 3,926,633 times
Reputation: 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
Hmm...I might agree with you except that I read once in Colorado, people were moving in on 40 acre ranchettes and not keeping their dogs confined. There was a lot of anger at a farmer who shot one of those free running dogs. Why does a rancher get a free pass to let his cattle roam but still gets to shoot a free roaming dog? Just curious.

Myself, I would never move anywhere and just let my own dog roam. I believe in keeping animals confined so they don't get out and cause any problems and I'd hope if they get out accidentally, someone would let me know and not shoot them.
Moving from the city to the country and just letting your dog run loose is a recipe for losing the dog - to coyote (or other predators) or a neighbor who just had enough of the dog(s) running their horses and cattle. You can keep cows behind barb-wire fencing but for dogs it is not a problem to jump/crawl under these fences and chase livestock for fun (and sometimes kill it for fun too). Heck, it is not OK to let your dogs roam around city neighborhoods either, I find it very funny that a city person will keep theuir dog confined in the city but thinks it is OK to let them run loose (onto other people's property) in the country
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2015, 03:47 PM
 
5,074 posts, read 4,300,392 times
Reputation: 10860
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarZLonghorns View Post
I have cattle and they have never gotten out. I ride my fence daily and it is a good fence to start with. I have plenty of grass and do not over graze the pasture to where the cows are looking at better grass through a fence. If you do these things you are a good rancher where I come from. If you are a dead beat as someone says and too lazy to maintain your fence then you should at least be sympathetic to someones yard your cows ruined. But lazy people generally are not sympathetic so if he was not sorry and did not make an attempt to clean up after his cows and maintain the fence keeping his cows in than that is what small claims court is for. Figure the damage and take his lazy butt to court. I know if my cows got out I would fix any damage done by them. I agree with the OP most people posting on here are not ranchers and really are city people wanting to be country people because they live in the country. Cows destroying your property is NOT part of living in the country. Anyone saying that is way out of touch.
That is not the law in Montana. In Montana it is up to property owners to fence cattle out, sheep in, stud horses in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2015, 12:19 AM
 
Location: Washington state
5,605 posts, read 2,934,843 times
Reputation: 17218
Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend View Post
Moving from the city to the country and just letting your dog run loose is a recipe for losing the dog - to coyote (or other predators) or a neighbor who just had enough of the dog(s) running their horses and cattle. You can keep cows behind barb-wire fencing but for dogs it is not a problem to jump/crawl under these fences and chase livestock for fun (and sometimes kill it for fun too). Heck, it is not OK to let your dogs roam around city neighborhoods either, I find it very funny that a city person will keep theuir dog confined in the city but thinks it is OK to let them run loose (onto other people's property) in the country
I've had friends that did this when they moved up into the Santa Cruz mountains, and it irked me to no end. And I have to say, I think I'd find it very hard to put up with a neighbor's dog continually running loose and harassing my animals. Anyone's animal can get loose at any time, but when it happens continually, that's another problem. For a problem dog like that, I don't think I could shoot them, but I might be tempted to catch them and bring them down to the nearest animal shelter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2016, 12:24 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,534 times
Reputation: 10
Default Made a account just for this post

Please quit misinforming people with uneducated facts about fence laws. Just google "your state" Fencing and Boundary Laws

Here in Missouri there is 2 different set of laws that are strictly enforced.

One is a general law that fits about 90% of Missouri counties.

General fence law
Chapter 272 of the Missouri Revised Statutes (RSMO 272.010 to 272.190), where the law is located, states that the livestock owner alone is legally responsible for building and maintaining a fence to enclose the livestock. When adjoining landowners or their renters own livestock, each is responsible for his or her half of the boundary fence for as long as they both run livestock against the field or enclosure.

The other 10% falls into the local fence laws which state

Local option fence law
RSMO sections 272.210 to 272.370 state that when one landowner requires a boundary fence, both landowners are legally responsible for their portion of the fence. It does not mention livestock ownership, although it is presumed.

Check your state/county codes and then take the steps to solve the problem.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2016, 07:42 PM
 
4,315 posts, read 2,670,034 times
Reputation: 7717
anybody who has cattle should have liability insurance included in your farm's wind/fire policy.


Everyone I knew does have it and insurance agents recommend it.
It is not that much extra.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2016, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Northern California
269 posts, read 162,488 times
Reputation: 548
I live rurally in Northern California. Here the rule is you need to fence OUT animals you don't want entering into your property. So if you don't want cows in your yard it's up to YOU to fence them out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2016, 12:49 AM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,205,112 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeman View Post
OP here (A.K.A "ass" to some of you). {snip}

All I want was to live on my little space of this Earth (that I worked damn hard for) in peace and quiet, doing my own thing and bothering no-one. And all I asked in return is if my personal property was damaged, that the person responsible would make sure it was unlikely to happen again, and offer to take care of the damage. Didn't think that was so much to ask for.

Amen, I could not agree more with you original poster.

I think rural people sometimes (and by the way I AM ONE) can be a little snotty and thus dismissive and intolerant of other views. You hear about "uptown" snobbery all the time, people who live in a fancy condominium and are rich and look down on people "beneath them," but rural people do much of the same thing in terms of "city slickers" and such.

News flash--the original poster has every right to live wherever he pleases (yes, that includes the country) and to advocate for what he thinks is right with respect to his own property and to be treated with respect. "When in Rome"--nonsense. How about leaving people alone on their own property versus harassing them? I DON'T CARE if "this is the country and this is the way we do things around here." (To that end, open-range should not exist anywhere, it's silly that one should have to pay money to keep out animals they had no part in going out and getting.) Culture and customs are NO EXCUSE for being a horse's butt. The man didn't send out an invitation or an RSVP for cows to trample all over his FENCED IN land, those cows I DON'T CARE about the "customs" of the area have NO RIGHT to be there, even if the owners think they're harmless, even if "aww, shucks, they don't hurt no one." That the man OWNS that property and doesn't WANT them there is all the reason he needs.

Look, I love country freedoms myself, but I also believe in not being a jerk. To wit, I enjoy popping firecrackers, where I live I can do so just about anytime I care to, not just on the 4th of July. I am glad no one complains about it, and this area is big on that freedom, it is truly "the way we do things around here." HOWEVER, were someone, say, who suffered with post-traumatic stress disorder move close to my home and then ask me if I could retard my firecracker popping somewhat because the noise distressed him as someone with PTSD, I would not get on his case about how "I don't need some city slicker coming around here telling me how to live, firecrackers is what we like to do and we don't need some dang Yankee coming around here trying to change our culture."

No, I would look to have some RESPECT and DECENCY with regards to where he's coming from, and try and work with him on this--e.g., maybe on Thursdays and Sundays he goes and spends half the day at the Veteran's Hall and so I could restrict my firecracker popping on those days when it's not going to bother him since he's not around anyway. In the same way, if I loved target practicing and the same thing happened I'm not going to reply "hey this is the country and hey we're huge 2nd amendment proponents around here and I don't want some gun control Commie trying to take away my guns, you don't like the way we do things around here go back where you come from"--no, no, I'm going to show some consideration and ponder the possibility that maybe being neighborly to your fellow man is more important than my "right" to shoot bullets all the time. (Again, how about doing so during times when you know he'll be gone?)

To me, THAT is what you do, NOT get on your high horse about how "when in Rome you do as we do"--no, it's HIS property, he's not obligated to be like everyone else on his own stinking property. He owns that lot of land, not his neighbors. You show RESPECT and KINDNESS to people, city slickers and country bumpkins alike. Common courtesy transcends cultures, and being a jerk isn't excusable just because "that's the way we do things around here."

Last edited by shyguylh; 12-15-2016 at 01:05 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2016, 11:05 AM
 
4,315 posts, read 2,670,034 times
Reputation: 7717
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaisyMaeB View Post
I live rurally in Northern California. Here the rule is you need to fence OUT animals you don't want entering into your property. So if you don't want cows in your yard it's up to YOU to fence them out.
cows are free to roam anyplace they want in Northern California?


even on the edges of towns ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2016, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Keosauqua, Iowa
9,200 posts, read 17,054,105 times
Reputation: 12393
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post

Look, I love country freedoms myself, but I also believe in not being a jerk. To wit, I enjoy popping firecrackers, where I live I can do so just about anytime I care to, not just on the 4th of July. I am glad no one complains about it, and this area is big on that freedom, it is truly "the way we do things around here." HOWEVER, were someone, say, who suffered with post-traumatic stress disorder move close to my home and then ask me if I could retard my firecracker popping somewhat because the noise distressed him as someone with PTSD, I would not get on his case about how "I don't need some city slicker coming around here telling me how to live, firecrackers is what we like to do and we don't need some dang Yankee coming around here trying to change our culture."

No, I would look to have some RESPECT and DECENCY with regards to where he's coming from, and try and work with him on this--e.g., maybe on Thursdays and Sundays he goes and spends half the day at the Veteran's Hall and so I could restrict my firecracker popping on those days when it's not going to bother him since he's not around anyway. In the same way, if I loved target practicing and the same thing happened I'm not going to reply "hey this is the country and hey we're huge 2nd amendment proponents around here and I don't want some gun control Commie trying to take away my guns, you don't like the way we do things around here go back where you come from"--no, no, I'm going to show some consideration and ponder the possibility that maybe being neighborly to your fellow man is more important than my "right" to shoot bullets all the time. (Again, how about doing so during times when you know he'll be gone?)
What if the guy is disabled and home 24/7?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Rural and Small Town Living
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:15 PM.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top