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Old 10-20-2009, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Way on the outskirts of LA LA land.
3,040 posts, read 10,535,268 times
Reputation: 1932

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One thing I would add to all of what's been posted already: Go to your neighbor one time and let them know the cost and consequences of allowing their dogs to run free. If possible, bring one or two of the other neighbors with you when you do so. I didn't see anything where someone went to the neighbor to let them know about the problem, so perhaps they don't know the significance of their actions (or lack thereof). By bringing some other neighbors with you, it will show that you are all in agreement on the matter, and if something were to happen to the dogs at a later time, the dog owner would have a hard time blaming someone. Let your neighbor know the cost of the damages caused by allowing the dogs to run free, and that they could be held liable for such damages. Offer this up as good, neighborly advice, and allow them a chance to do the right thing. If they don't keep their dogs in line, then you can take further measures without the guilt of not giving them a chance to do what's right. Finally, as suggested earlier, keep a written record of your discussion, such as when you were there, who was there with you, and what was said to, and by, your neighbor. Also keep a record of any damage caused by your neighbor's dogs, along with pictures, whenever possible.
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Fresno, CA
1,071 posts, read 1,080,404 times
Reputation: 1980
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
Gosh, molly, that twelve-step program for a "keep it friendly" approach to animal control sounds so warm, so loving, and so nice ... but it's failing to accomplish the purpose.
Sorry my approach is too warm and fuzzy, sunsprit. Just too lacking in the macho department for ya I guess.

Burr asked for a tactful, assertive approach.

The alternatives presented have pretty much been:
  • Do away with the dogs- either by shooting them or relocating them.
    Burr indicated he had shot a dog before and might be getting too mellow for this.
  • Get the authorities or animal control to take care of them. Often not very successful in many areas.
  • Talk directly to the owner. Most of us agree this will elicit an attitude alright, but not a cooperative one.

I offered an approach that has worked for me on several occasions--both in the country and in the suburbs. Talking directly to the owner only brings out their defensive anger. If you pen up their dogs running loose on your property, the owners get just as ticked off BUT they still have to come get their dogs. And it really irritates them to have to come to you more than once; so much so, that they don't want to keep doing it and start keeping their dogs up to avoid dealing with you. Problem solved.

It does make it harder for them to unleash on you when you kill 'em with kindness and reinforce you're doing it to be neighborly. Friendliness (with consequences) isn't synonymous with weakness.

Burr didn't say he has livestock or poultry the dogs are running or killing or that they're accosting his family or running in front of his vehicles. In that case, more drastic and immediate measures would be required.

Sorry if my approach isn't "guns drawn at 20 paces" or "shoot first and ask questions later". I did at least offer a concrete solution from my own experiences which were akin to what Burr described. If it's not hard-nosed or expedient enough for you, that's okay. To each our own. If I could have strong-armed my neighbors into behaving, I would have.
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,484 posts, read 3,385,197 times
Reputation: 2413
dogs that run deer and game birds are no nos ..those same hounds do it to livestock and poultry.. I understand a single warning to the owner after that the dogs will simply be gone.. Hard reality but it seems that for the most part the only kinda wake up call some owners understand. .. I fully expect that my dogs would suffer the same fate if they were pack running the farms around me as well .. and I would have only myself to blame for being a uncareing owner
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,178 posts, read 9,534,807 times
Reputation: 9580
I live on the edge of a rural town, and have 60 acres to the north of it. I bought it to raise animals for self-sufficiency - chickens, cows, etc.

A woman in town, notorious for letting her dogs and children run loose, sat next to us at a dinner. As her children fought right next to DH, she looked at me and simpered and said, "I hear you are going to be raising chickens. I hope that you don't get upset when my dogs come over and do what dogs do!"

I smiled and said, "I hope that YOU don't get upset when you hear the .22 go off."

Her dogs now remain in her fenced-in yard, or on leashes when they come off her property. Yup, I'm a mean old lady.

My property and animals are investments in my future, not free playtoys for people who don't want to spend the money or time to take care of their own animals. People who don't understand this by the time they reach adulthood will not be convinced of it, nor will want to listen unless you are ready, willing, and able to impact them in a very personal way.

At the old place, we were hesitant to tell a neighbor and good friend that his dog, running with a pack, had inadvertently gotten shot the night before, while breaking with his pack into our chicken yard. But we did, because we were good friends. He thanked us; said that the dog was his wife's, he hated it, and she insisted that they let it run free at night because "it was a dog's nature". He said that she needed to learn that a dog was a responsibility, not an animal 'made to run free' onto other peoples' property.

My advice - check the laws in your area, buy a .22 and become a better shot. Practice makes perfect. And an animal shot with a .22 oftentimes does not drop where it is hit, but can run almost home before that bullet, ricocheting around inside, causes that last fall. The three S's - shoot, shovel and shaddup - are prevalent in a lot of places that you wouldn't expect, though. If that is "cruel" - it is cruel to an animal to own it, not care for it and protect it from harm and diseases it will pick up from running free.
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:56 AM
 
1,166 posts, read 1,603,360 times
Reputation: 1160
Try .22....then move up.....223.....22-250....etc

When I lived in Montana the local ranchers (several of which I know personally) got fed up with the "urban" types letting their dogs loose....only to have them form up into packs and kill life-stock in the night....
The city, county, state did nothing....
So, my buddy started shooting the dogs dead, on sight, when he found them on his ranch....
A single dead steer is what....800 to 1500 bucks?....A single dead dog.....zip. My friend was LOOSING 1000$ a night....well that ended but quick I can assure you....

Let it be known, staring with the local sheriff, that you're tired of the "wild dogs" running around...and that you'll shoot dead any "wild" dog on your property if something is not done about it.......If the dogs scare you then you're in fear of them get it? So...if you don't know if the dogs are wild, are rabid or have a history of attacking people or not...you have to assume that they are dangerous. You have the right to protect yourself your property and YOUR animals.....so do it.
After three or four dogs go "missing" the message will get out....and people will start being more responsible...


P.S.

Many a time when I'm out hunting...I've had owners tell me...


"have a nice hunt!.....oh....and please please PLEASE....kill every damn wild dog you see....."


and I always say...

"Sir...my pleasure..."

And I always do.......

Last edited by Happy Cells; 10-21-2009 at 08:10 AM..
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:56 AM
 
Location: the sticks
823 posts, read 1,324,112 times
Reputation: 582
Some have noticed and mentioned detail that I intentionally included in my posts because I knew if I hadn't (included these 'alternative solutions ideas'), then 98% of replies would suggest shooting the dogs. And most of these are rancher types that lose poultry, livestock, etc. They have a positively airtight case IMO. And in future, if I lose the same, this would be a far different case. Unfortunately, this solution is one that must be dealt with for time unknown as the guy is a neighbor, good one or not, and although not exactly next door, he is within range. And he may be there for the rest of our lives, who knows ? I don't want to be in that type situation with somebody that shares a property boundary with me.

Now, although I have stopped target shooting and hunting at my place (simply a respect thing to the increase of human population that are neighbors, not actually illegal) for several years now, I have decided to re-open my target range. My problem neighbor shoots freely behind me, so my tuning up the 22 today seems totally appropriate. Starting with my Ruger Mark III 22/45 since I have several thousand rounds, it will be fun; I miss shooting. As I go about with various chores (never-damn ending, huh ?), I will plink throughout the day, and when time comes for the expected daily runs, I might dedicate a little more lead to the cause. Tommorrow, I plan to rack the SKS (a little less subtle) if needed. And if that doesn't change attitudes, I will invite my best friend to participate also, just to increase the presence of this sweetoleboys quiet and nonassuming neighbor to the northwest

(me).

Does this make any sense ?
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,484 posts, read 3,385,197 times
Reputation: 2413
Sure it does Burr.. I think it just needs to be done .. Its not fun to shoot a dog that might be someones pet BUT free running dogs are a danger to everything around their sphere and them selves .. I would rather shoot and bury a dog than to find it caught by its collar on a tree or snagged on a fence where it starved to death .. that's far sadder then a clean kill .. the dog owner doesn't care enough about the dog to keep it home and they never really come looking for it if it just is gone they simply replace it and again lets the new dog run free .. those sorts dont deserve a dog .. .. Its sad that some folks are so uncareing and thoughtless.. and one has to wonder how they treat thier kids .. ( Oh hell no I never go visiting to find out .. )
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:52 AM
 
Location: 3rd Rock fts
748 posts, read 976,493 times
Reputation: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by burr View Post
I'm not sure which forum for this, so:

and it also got a little long

I have a spot, 10 acres wooded, among 8 or 10 others of comparable size (5-15 acre tracts) on a dirt road. In '79, when I bought it, it was out in the sticks; now, of course,
neighbors are everywhere. Although it can still get quiet, reality is that 'why didn't I buy 20 miles further out and get 30 acres', you know what I mean ?

...I need to develop a strategy that will tactfully yet assertively, let this sweet ole boy know how to be a good neighbor. H E L P
I assume this is the worst neighborly situation you've had in 30 years. Seems to me you made a real good decision with your choice of rural property to live on. I guess the 1st thing you should do is figure out if this is the beginning of the end. Are your other neighbors’ going to split up/divide & then move on? Do you want to become an irritable old man, with a rotting knot in his stomach, watching the prospect of crowding you in down the road with smaller tracts moving in?

You’re only 48-50 years old. If this is the beginning of the end get together with your family & start talking about a new life in a new rural setting.

Maybe, just maybe, the future new housing growth won’t re-materialize for a long, long time so you’ll get another 30+ years of what you want out of life?

I’m green in this area so I hope nobody minds if I stick my .02 cents in. This is my way of learning this rural stuff.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:12 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,679,656 times
Reputation: 8170
As I stated, a major problem is all those tracts of 5-15 acres.

All it takes is one jerk, and your problems are no different than if you were living in town.

5-15 tracts are too darn small to have people flocking to living their "homesteading dream"

Heck, with 5 acre tracts, there would be 16 different people living on 80 acres.

Sure would have a great chance of --1-- ruining it for the other 15.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,484 posts, read 3,385,197 times
Reputation: 2413
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSOs View Post
I assume this is the worst neighborly situation you've had in 30 years. Seems to me you made a real good decision with your choice of rural property to live on. I guess the 1st thing you should do is figure out if this is the beginning of the end. Are your other neighbors’ going to split up/divide & then move on? Do you want to become an irritable old man, with a rotting knot in his stomach, watching the prospect of crowding you in down the road with smaller tracts moving in?

You’re only 48-50 years old. If this is the beginning of the end get together with your family & start talking about a new life in a new rural setting.

Maybe, just maybe, the future new housing growth won’t re-materialize for a long, long time so you’ll get another 30+ years of what you want out of life?

I’m green in this area so I hope nobody minds if I stick my .02 cents in. This is my way of learning this rural stuff.
#1 rule.... keep your dog at home ..
That not happening is the reason most Urban folks dont feel welcome in the country .. their damn dog that isn't kept home .. I love new neighbors but its usually thier dog I meet first ... running the farm critters or killing the poulty .. worthless dog means worthless owner .. I just dont have time to play nice at that point .. NOW I do know that not everyone is like that but but the facts tend to support the reasoning IMHO anyways .
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