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Old 01-01-2013, 11:51 PM
 
337 posts, read 894,208 times
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My thoughts go out to the families of those who were injured and killed.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:26 AM
 
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This truly is a sad incident. How many different lives were lost, are scarred and changed for ever now over this?

I believe there was two shootings as well at S.F.'s New Years festivities. I think a 12 year old was shot on one of those. This was at the Embarcadero.

SF police investigate two separate New Year's Eve shootings | abc7news.com

What do we as a community and society do now? As I get older I'd rather stay home. It's much easier and safer to watch the fireworks, sports, etc on tv as sad as that is.

I feel these shootings are merely a reflection of our society. If it was not tolerated or the culprits were not tolerated it probably wouldn't happen near as frequent as it does now days.

Something like this made me think about things. I love going to Old Sac and would love to bring my children there if I had some that were of age to want to watch fireworks. Unfortunately the undesirables are commonplace and accepted and I don't see this type of event changing. I most likely wouldn't go to these fireworks due to this possibly happening again.

I have a lot of personal thoughts about this but I'm sure most others would feel I would just be interjecting my political and social beliefs into this.

The only way as of now to get me to go to a large scale event like this would be: an enormous amount of police personnel, people being searched upon entry in the area, anyone the police felt might cause a problem should be turned away, anyone the police feel are causing a problem would be removed, somehow make the area secure to not allow others in who aren't in compliance with the rules. I don't see any of this happening however.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:33 AM
 
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There have been several other high-profile shootings at bars and nightclubs over the past couple of year--this summer a shooting outside Harlows, in 2010 the Second Saturday shooting at Streets of London. None have really done anything to deter people coming out to public events, nightclubs, bars or other gatherings. Some reshuffling was done of how Second Saturday runs but mostly it just shifted people from Midtown bars to Downtown and Old Sacramento bars.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:03 AM
 
762 posts, read 2,019,419 times
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R.I.P. to the victims....
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:34 AM
 
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Truly, I wish we could just have nice things. I agree with Think About It! that it presents some difficulty in how we react to, control for, or protect against these types of things. While it appears the crime (violent and otherwise) statistics for 2012 will be rather disappointing, we have a long and encouraging trend nationally in reducing violence and we can hope that trend, despite some bumps in the road, will continue.

As for "solutions", that's hard to say. I'm encouraged to see a national conversation about gun control, but that will accomplish little. We would need an extremely aggressive approach that would be politically completely infeasible, not least because it may require a constitutional amendment. Obviously, we need fewer bad people with guns, and it seems no one is sure how to accomplish that. Second, at a city level, wburg is right that we need more of our party neighborhoods to become closer to actual neighborhoods. That's a huge win for livability, public safety, and the tax base. Finally, as we restore what had been cut from the public safety budget, I hope we can crack down on all matter of crime, including the fairly petty stuff. While by most accounts, the police have still been very good about prosecuting serious offenses, all of the livability issues that go unchecked and laws that go unenforced, affect both the quality of life of the residents and give an impression of lawlessness that can encourage larger crimes.

I know this isn't the safest city in the world, but it's still somewhere I feel safe. While that hasn't changed, this episode of violence really bothered me. While there have been some really tragic examples of innocent people hit in crossfires, the idea of families who'd just enjoyed fireworks and Taylor Swift cover band ducking for cover band is a truly repugnant image. I've been less than 2 years, but it's first place I've really called home. It's the first place I bought a house, the first place I knew all my neighbors' names and made cookies for them on Christmas. The first place I've cheered new businesses and wanted to welcome visitors by taking them to our new favorite hangouts. Hell, the first place I've spent time on message boards telling people about neighborhoods, public transit, and bike routes. None of that has changed and none is regrettable--indeed, this was really just one hothead in an argument, and you could imagine the thousand variables that could have kept this guy at home, made him leave his gun, or allowed him to keep his cool. But it still bothers me on some fundamental level. When you burn so many calories wishing and hoping for the next thing that will improve your city and the quality of life for you and its residents, it's difficult to perpetuate that enthusiasm when it seems so much easier for some idiot to ruin it for everyone else. And when your mind is tuned that way, your love of place dies a death of a thousand needle pricks, as you continually see the parallel potential in everything and a series of people and actions that seem hellbent on undermining it. I suppose that's, then, the challenge for all of us. That those who want to live in a better place become more enthusiastic, not less; more ready to enjoy those things that make this place great and the ones that come along in the future, not less.

If you'll forgive the gallows humor: I can't help but think of one positive from this event. The eyewitness account that noted that the nearby mounted police were galloping down the streets of Old Sac with their guns drawn. You gotta know that somewhere in their heads, perhaps under less tragic circumstances, those cops were really hoping to do that some time in their lives.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:35 AM
 
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Temporary borders with metal detectors are needed when expecting big crowds. Even then, the thugs will lurk on the outskirts (think Arden after the fair) or imagine if Arco didn't cost so much to park... what that parking lot would be like after the game... vigilance in crowds or at your own risk, I guess.
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:35 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, California
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I notice people these days refuse to back down and it causes more incidences like this

everybody is too worried about proving they are not afraid

I guess different cultures value being macho and their culture doesnt allow them to appologize and back down
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:58 PM
 
Location: in a galaxy far far away
19,105 posts, read 16,488,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryuns View Post
As for "solutions", that's hard to say. I'm encouraged to see a national conversation about gun control, but that will accomplish little.
Yes, especially when people are carrying concealed weapons without a permit to do so, which is exactly what happened in this case. The shooter didn't have a permit to carry one. Moreover, there is no sane reason why someone would carry a gun to a social event such as a New Year's Eve celebration. That's just lunacy!
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,634 posts, read 24,768,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereOnMars View Post
Yes, especially when people are carrying concealed weapons without a permit to do so, which is exactly what happened in this case. The shooter didn't have a permit to carry one. Moreover, there is no sane reason why someone would carry a gun to a social event such as a New Year's Eve celebration. That's just lunacy!
Uh, not really. This was an extreme example of why sane people would want to carry, especially at a social event such as New Year's Eve. Problem is many sane people aren't going to carry in a bar, even if they aren't drinking themselves. There's just too many people who've had too many drinks in a crowded place. Couple that with Sacramento's low issuance of CCWs in general and the fact that carrying into a bar at all can get your CCW revoked, and it's pretty guaranteed that the only people carrying in a bar are going to be criminals. There aren't that many CCW holders, and many of those that are aren't going to carry in that situation because they don't want that level or responsibility or don't want violate the terms of their carry permit.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:50 PM
 
1,321 posts, read 2,638,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereOnMars View Post
Yes, especially when people are carrying concealed weapons without a permit to do so, which is exactly what happened in this case. The shooter didn't have a permit to carry one. Moreover, there is no sane reason why someone would carry a gun to a social event such as a New Year's Eve celebration. That's just lunacy!
I agree--and of course nearly all of the conversations about gun control that happen are just salve for our collective wounds and would have done little if anything, even with 20/20 hindsight, to have avoided the tragedy. I generally don't like talking about the gun-related topics, especially on the internet, because it's incredibly difficult to have a sane conversation about it. People are long on opinion and short on facts. Suffice it to say, none of the conversations on the national level would accomplish much, even if they go forward. My favored source of news, The Economist magazine, with its unique cross Atlantic perspective, suggests that only heavy handed gun control would possibly accomplish something and that this would be, admittedly, pretty infeasible, both politically and probably logistically. They note: "If Americans want a society where schools do not, as the one in Newtown did, have to drill their children in emergency lock-down procedures, more drastic measures should be contemplated. Handgun bans, such as those that operated in Chicago and Washington, DC, before the Supreme Court struck them down, would be needed on a national scale. Gun licences, obtainable only after extensive police and medical review as in most other civilised countries, would be needed for hunting and sporting weapons. Tough police action, coupled with an extensive “buy-back” programme, would be needed to mop up the hundreds of millions of guns that are already held. If, as seems probable, this is held to conflict with the constitution, then the constitution needs to be amended." From: Gun violence in America: Newtown

I don't mean to derail the thread, and I realize the very quotation may rub some the wrong way, but I thought I'd explain the background of my original comment.
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