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Typically middle class minorities are a group that want to assimiliate with middle class whites really bad,but middle class whites tend not to want to assimilate with these groups in larger than they're comfortable with numbers. For instance a middle class asian neighborhood may have started out 90% white, but as more middle class asians moved in the neighborhood became less white and is now 60% white or something. That happens more often than not when other miniorities not just asians of middle class economic status move into formerly predominitely white neighborhoods.
LOL, are you kidding me? I'm black, middle class since birth and I don't have to live with whites really bad. You make me laugh. I choose to live with people of like minded values, morals, interests etc who happen to come in a whole host of colors, races and cultures. Where did you come up with this? You're assuming and making a huge generalization that all blacks or asians or latinos or poor whites want to do so. If anything, I believe the conscious individuals who happen to be underpriviledged or lacking in opportunity, more than anything simply want to ensure they have solid employment, are putting food on their families' tables and are providing a safe living environment for their families. They are after basic survival first and foremost. If they are fortunate to move and improve their life, then they can tack on exploring lifestyle interests down the road. Living with whites is not their first priority. And I won't even go into the reasons why you mostly likely think this way...would need to start another thread and I'm not here to insult. It is true that most middle class neighborhoods are primarily white in this country, but you'll also find middle and upper class neighborhoods of color. To say that non-whites want to live with whites really bad, perhaps some do, but it's a generalization. I would take a wild guess that if they are not hip to participating in a melting pot experiment, they would want to live in a non-white middle class environment. And if they've had opportunities to learn about other cultures and were raised to think like this, then they would be unconcerned about living in a white middle class neighborhood. White flight is another subject and coming from a non-white person's perspective, people of color could really care less if you fly. If you want to stay, cool. If you want to leave, hey that's your problem. The whites who do this are just causing themselves undue stress in my opinion.
I agree with most of the comments about the melting pot issue, but you're analzying it to death. I grew up in San Francisco, CA in a large asian neighborhood with chinese, asian, korean and japanese people. There were also blacks, whites, latinos in smaller percentages. For the most part the neighborhood was middle class, but there were also families who were struggling. I don't remember there being any significant race problems as it was a mostly educated cluster of families and they wanted to live there. And also probably because children don't particpate in this nonsense unless they're taught to do so. My childhood friends and I probably were largely responsible for bringing our families together with the friendships we established. I bet if you ask your own kids these same questions, they will laugh at you too. They seem to be less inclined to worry about this as much as older generations did. Growing up in a multi cultural environment opens one's eyes that we do truly create our own reality and that most people have more similarities than differences. The same challenges and problems. I could go on, but I think you get the point.
If you start out a thread with the header stating, 'this is NOT a racist question but....', then in fact what you're really saying is watch out this is a racist question, but with a little sugar coating on it. Any time you're talking about another race it's racist. Because you're talking about race. I don't see this as a bad thing, just stating the obvious. You have every right to do so, but make no mistake about it you're going to bring in your objective learnings and subjective experiences into the equation when responding. And most importantly your fears and how you perceive someone else to be.
And yes I realize the originator of this thread is from another country, but then just ask the question without stating that it's not racist, because in fact it is. I wish that an asian person would respond to this question. It will be interesting to see their perspective. So far I'm assuming, we're only getting a white viewpoint.
Good luck with your move and welcome to California.
Peace.
Last edited by redwoodlvr; 03-14-2008 at 09:37 AM..
Hey I like some of what you said, but if you look at it on a class level and say I want to live in a middle class neighborhood with people who have similiar values why does race need to come in? It has been constatly proven that whites in general do not want to live around large populations of other racial groups regardless of their class level. The common excuse for white flight has always been well they don't have the same cultural values, high crime, low performing neighborhoods etc. This is a sad but true characteristic of each minorities "underclass" and even the "white underclass."
They tend to have distinctly different cultures than thier respective middle class, but most of these minority middle classes are modeld after the "white middle class" , so they share more in common than in difference with the white middle class yet whites will still jump ship if a bunch of middle class asians, blacks, or hispanics move into their neighborhood, that was all i was saying. Typically middle class minorities are a group that want to assimiliate with middle class whites really bad, but middle class whites tend not to want to assimilate with these groups in larger than they're comfortable with numbers. For instance a middle class asian neighborhood may have started out 90% white, but as more middle class asians moved in the neighborhood became less white and is now 60% white or something. That happens more often than not when other miniorities not just asians of middle class economic status move into formerly predominitely white neighborhoods.
Anyway your melting pot point is right on. We really do not have a very effective melting pot at all unless you're lower middle class and those people typically cannot afford to move, so their neighborhoods tend to be more diverse, but not by choice. Whereas whites in the middle class typically just move when they do not want to live around other groups. Whereas whites in the upper middle are shielded from ever having to move, because there are just not a large enough percentage of upper middle class minorities of either group to replace them in large percentages or threaten their existence in the neighborhood
White flight is more common amongst lower middle/ and middle class whites, but rare amongst poor whites and affluent whites.... Exmaple whites are not going to leave Holmbly Hills, because a few too many asians, blacks, or hispanics are moving in.
"Typically middle class minorities are a group that want to assimiliate with middle class whites really bad,"
I don't believe this quote is true for one moment...not REALLY BAD. It' certainly not true for Blacks. Blacks have (Middle class and upper class) long gotten over the white middle class and upper class that don't want to share the same class. In these circles, middle and upper class Blacks SEEK OUT AND WOULD RATHER live with other Blacks in their income bracket. We do NOT want to assimilate with whites "really bad."
hehe you said what i said, but my only grip is that all minority groups tend to lean Democraticly sad to say and Asian are no different almost 70% their population voted Democractic last election (66.5% to be exact)
You might have an argument for all groups based on economic status as i'm sure most upper middle class people of all races are fiscallly conservative and tend to vote with their checkbook in mind.
I see nothing at all sad about how Asians vote. That's actually encouraging especially where things are now. How arrogant to make a statement such as that; Because someone votes different, it's sad.
LOL, are you kidding me? I'm black, middle class since birth and I don't have to live with whites really bad. You make me laugh. I choose to live with people of like minded values, morals, interests etc who happen to come in a whole host of colors, races and cultures. Where did you come up with this? You're assuming and making a huge generalization that all blacks or asians or latinos or poor whites want to do so. If anything, I believe the conscious individuals who happen to be underpriviledged or lacking in opportunity, more than anything simply want to ensure they have solid employment, are putting food on their families' tables and are providing a safe living environment for their families. They are after basic survival first and foremost. If they are fortunate to move and improve their life, then they can tack on exploring lifestyle interests down the road. Living with whites is not their first priority. And I won't even go into the reasons why you mostly likely think this way...would need to start another thread and I'm not here to insult. It is true that most middle class neighborhoods are primarily white in this country, but you'll also find middle and upper class neighborhoods of color. To say that non-whites want to live with whites really bad, perhaps some do, but it's a generalization. I would take a wild guess that if they are not hip to participating in a melting pot experiment, they would want to live in a non-white middle class environment. And if they've had opportunities to learn about other cultures and were raised to think like this, then they would be unconcerned about living in a white middle class neighborhood. White flight is another subject and coming from a non-white person's perspective, people of color could really care less if you fly. If you want to stay, cool. If you want to leave, hey that's your problem. The whites who do this are just causing themselves undue stress in my opinion.
I agree with most of the comments about the melting pot issue, but you're analzying it to death. I grew up in San Francisco, CA in a large asian neighborhood with chinese, asian, korean and japanese people. There were also blacks, whites, latinos in smaller percentages. For the most part the neighborhood was middle class, but there were also families who were struggling. I don't remember there being any significant race problems as it was a mostly educated cluster of families and they wanted to live there. And also probably because children don't particpate in this nonsense unless they're taught to do so. My childhood friends and I probably were largely responsible for bringing our families together with the friendships we established. I bet if you ask your own kids these same questions, they will laugh at you too. They seem to be less inclined to worry about this as much as older generations did. Growing up in a multi cultural environment opens one's eyes that we do truly create our own reality and that most people have more similarities than differences. The same challenges and problems. I could go on, but I think you get the point.
If you start out a thread with the header stating, 'this is NOT a racist question but....', then in fact what you're really saying is watch out this is a racist question, but with a little sugar coating on it. Any time you're talking about another race it's racist. Because you're talking about race. I don't see this as a bad thing, just stating the obvious. You have every right to do so, but make no mistake about it you're going to bring in your objective learnings and subjective experiences into the equation when responding. And most importantly your fears and how you perceive someone else to be.
And yes I realize the originator of this thread is from another country, but then just ask the question without stating that it's not racist, because in fact it is. I wish that an asian person would respond to this question. It will be interesting to see their perspective. So far I'm assuming, we're only getting a white viewpoint.
Good luck with your move and welcome to California.
Peace.
AMEN TO THE ninth degree! I wonder sometimes where people GET THESE NOTIONS OF IGNORANCE! "REALLY BAD"...ROTF...that's a joke and you and I KNOW that.
I see nothing at all sad about how Asians vote. That's actually encouraging especially where things are now. How arrogant to make a statement such as that; Because someone votes different, it's sad.
Indeed. I'm black and Independent and I just might vote for ma ma ma...McCain. But probably not, just making a point.
Last edited by redwoodlvr; 03-14-2008 at 10:22 AM..
AMEN TO THE ninth degree! I wonder sometimes where people GET THESE NOTIONS OF IGNORANCE! "REALLY BAD"...ROTF...that's a joke and you and I KNOW that.
My opinion only. They get these notions of ignorance from institutionalized everything and from a perception that everyone wants what they have I'm assuming. It also comes from hundreds of years of unassuming priviledge and a feeling that what they have can now be shared. "Come on in, you can have some NOW". Gasp, yes I said it. And a lot of it is truly unconscious, they just don't get the full impact of priviledge or understand the consequences. They don't have to. My opinion only. Not their fault entirely the people who make such statements...it's just what they know. They could be the nicest folk, but the nicest folk can also be you know what.
Brings to mind a quote from Famous Amos (the former choc chip cookie dude) that puts everything in perspective...
"It's none of my business what other people think of me"
Okay not my intention to hijack the thread, but I had to respond to the "wants to move really bad" comment.
I really do hope an asian person will share their perspective on this thread. Especially since they've now been officially "asianized". New words to add to Webster's...hmmm..."asianizing" and "asianing".
Peace.
Last edited by redwoodlvr; 03-14-2008 at 11:08 AM..
I'm an asian, and just registered. I'm curious about how people react to race so that's why I'm here. My family was sponsored by 2 white families, and they were great. Now, I'm in Texas, my white folks on the right fixed and mowed my lawn whenever he did his and saw mine was high. My left folks, white, invited me inside their home anytime, I've stood outside their doorstep. My opposite black folks welcomed us with a dish of brownie when we just came. However, my wife and kid were so shy, and couldn't assimilate. My wife broken English really barricades her from that. Myself, I've always exhausted from work. Before, we have those guys either stopped by playing ping pong, or I stopped by played darts, but it gratually comes to a stop. We're still friends and waving to each other, but it's almost it. I wish we'd have more time, but everyone seems busier. Many times I been treated badly, and most of the time from the white folks too, but many many more times the people who helped, and supported were also the white folks. I guess, I see less and less racist as more people are exposed to the other colors, but you can't stop it. Many people treat their own people badly too, and you can't expect they'd treat the other colors good. More young people now support Obama (I support Clinton), and I think that's a good sign. When your kids don't treat people based on colors then it would affect you and vice versa.
Peace.
I agree with most of the comments about the melting pot issue, but you're analzying it to death. I grew up in San Francisco, CA in a large asian neighborhood with chinese, asian, korean and japanese people. There were also blacks, whites, latinos in smaller percentages. For the most part the neighborhood was middle class, but there were also families who were struggling. I don't remember there being any significant race problems as it was a mostly educated cluster of families and they wanted to live there. And also probably because children don't particpate in this nonsense unless they're taught to do so. My childhood friends and I probably were largely responsible for bringing our families together with the friendships we established. I bet if you ask your own kids these same questions, they will laugh at you too. They seem to be less inclined to worry about this as much as older generations did. Growing up in a multi cultural environment opens one's eyes that we do truly create our own reality and that most people have more similarities than differences.
Very well put. My son was born in San Francisco, and we lived there until he was 12 when we moved to Davis. He grew up surrounded by families of all colors and ethnicities and sexual orientations, and now as an older teen, he can't understand why people worry about any of this stuff. He makes his mind up about people as individuals, not as part of a group based on their color or anything else. I personally can't understand why anyone would worry about who lives in the their neighborhood with the exception of whether it's a safe place for your family. Just take a look at the neighborhood, how the houses are kept, the crime stats, and if those are all acceptable to you, don't fret if your neighbors are green and came from Mars. You might find them and their culture very interesting and stimulating to become familiar with!
My opinion only. They get these notions of ignorance from institutionalized everything and from a perception that everyone wants what they have I'm assuming. It also comes from hundreds of years of unassuming priviledge and a feeling that what they have can now be shared. "Come on in, you can have some NOW". Gasp, yes I said it. And a lot of it is truly unconscious, they just don't get the full impact of priviledge or understand the consequences. They don't have to. My opinion only. Not their fault entirely the people who make such statements...it's just what they know. They could be the nicest folk, but the nicest folk can also be you know what.
Brings to mind a quote from Famous Amos (the former choc chip cookie dude) that puts everything in perspective...
"It's none of my business what other people think of me"
Okay not my intention to hijack the thread, but I had to respond to the "wants to move really bad" comment.
I really do hope an asian person will share their perspective on this thread. Especially since they've now been officially "asianized". New words to add to Webster's...hmmm..."asianizing" and "asianing".
Peace.
How funny you should mention Famous Amos. Had the pleasure of hearing him speak a few years back and spending some time talking with him...a very inspirational guy...but yeah....what you said! :-) I agree! lol!
Okay I'm "ASIAN" so I'll chime in...rather think of myself as Filipino-American but I digress. I was born here in the US but my father and mother came here from the Philippines with the US Navy. I grew up on on military bases however when Dad retired had to move to a lower-income predominantly-Filipino area of Vallejo for middle-school and High School.
I now consider myself in the upper middle-class as far as income and the current neighborhood I own in, relative to the Bay Area.
Do I (or did I) want to assimilate with middle-class whites really bad?
I think people get the misconception that since you "want" something you are trying to "be" something else. If you are poor and have dreams of being upwardly mobile and affluent, since in most areas white people make up the middle-class, are you trying to be white? Assimilating is also a strong word, in that somehow you are losing your own racial heritage. Should I now start eating dinner rolls with my chicken adobo instead of Rice? So to sum up this question...NO we dont want to move somewhere because white people live there. We want to move where its safe, good schools, and employment...pretty much what every sane Father would want for his family. However, if that neighborhood has all those qualities AND it was predominantly-Asian or Filipino, so much more the better personally because as was previously stated by other people in the forum, people tend to gravitate toward their own.
"that all minority groups tend to lean Democraticly sad to say and Asian are no different almost 70% their population voted Democractic last election (66.5% to be exact)"
How about we say it the other way, almost 40% voted for Republicans! As a Filipino it truly confuses me when some of us vote Democratic. Everything we seem to stand for, are about, and taught by our parents leans directly towards the Republican party. We come from nothing most of us, come to the US and work hard, and for the most part are "successful". If you aren't starting your own business or at least thinking about it, you are in the minority of this minority. We don't look for sympathy, hand-outs, entitlements, or reparations. Well maybe only our WWII vets who were jacked out of benefits (but I digress again). We look down upon our own who are on welfare or section 8. Not saying that its right but its the plain, simple, honest truth (don't shoot the messenger). The majority of us are practicing Catholics and Christians who do not believe in abortion or same-sex marriages. Many of us come from Military families and believe in a strong defense. Our children and their education is our number 1 priority, we will bust our azz to send them to a private school if our local public school is underperforming. 2-year tenures? Wow. Vouchers? Send them here and fast! My city and school district is bankrupt...have you guessed where I live yet?
I personally think if most of us Filipinos, Asians, and minorities in general were able to do a self-assessment of our true priorities,values, morals, and beliefs AND NOT base it on newspaper headlines, the evening news, CNN, or Hollywood-types there would only be one logical choice. Instead of saying "I hate Bush" or "Surrender in Iraq now"...please enlighten yourself on the true issues that affect your own personal day-to-day life.
(gotta love public forums)
So with my rant over...do you still want to live next to this Asian? Or do you want this Asian moving into your neighborhood?
Mabuhay ng Pinoy
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But probably not, just making a point.
There goes the neighborhood...
