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RT is primarily funded by state and local sales tax revenue (53%) and federal taxes (21%). (Yes, federal income tax contributes to the federal contribution.) Only 19% of operating costs are funded through fares. The rest comes from contracted services (4%) and other sources (3%). If someone is getting a free ride that is not being reimbursed, fare revenue and contracted services are not a factor in the cost of that ride. Therefore, 96% of that ride is being paid for by taxes. For those who are getting a discount, taxes are also paying for the rest of that fare.
These are not services that would be in existence if the arena event were not happening. RT is adding security, trains, operating time, fare checkers, ambassadors solely for these events - all being funded by RT which is funded by taxes.
LOL. OK, some people are getting a "free ride" on certain days, on a bus route that was already in existence long before this arena. All paid for by some fraction of your personal tax dollars. OK, I'll give you that.
LOL. OK, some people are getting a "free ride" on certain days, on a bus route that was already in existence long before this arena. All paid for by some fraction of your personal tax dollars. OK, I'll give you that.
Yes, the routes exist but the additional trains, the extended hours - only for the arena crowd but not late enough for the theater crowd, the extra security - only for times when people would be traveling to the arena, and the ambassadors at the stations - only for the arena crowd, did not.
How much is this costing RT? And yet RT is asking us for more money. Higher fares and more taxes for fewer services during normal operating hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacite
Should we tear it down now?
Are you offering? Didn't think so. Just stop making me pay for it. Live up to the promises that only arena patrons would be paying the costs. But I know that is never going to happen either.
Yes, the routes exist but the additional trains, the extended hours - only for the arena crowd but not late enough for the theater crowd, the extra security - only for times when people would be traveling to the arena, and the ambassadors at the stations - only for the arena crowd, did not.
How much is this costing RT? And yet RT is asking us for more money. Higher fares and more taxes for fewer services during normal operating hours.
Your microscope about anything with the Arena screams of hypocrisy.
Any additional costs are paid either by the Kings and/or the purchaser of the event ticket holder at G1C.
The additional trains usually amount to no more than 2 more trains per Gold and Blue lines, and it's not just for the G1C crowd anyone can use those extra trains, including the theater crowd. Also, extra trains are not needed for G1C events that occur during the day.
Security is needed to protect the public/public transit users from criminals. Ambassadors help to get more people to use public transit overall including trains and buses.
When you bring in 17,500 to 20,000 people into the downtown/midtown area at least once a week, it has the positive affect of increasing business for the small businesses in that 10-20 block area. It has the long term affect of making downtown/midtown more attractive to a lot of people overall. Which leads to a more vibrant downtown.
Chim, that is awesome! Sounds like a hell of a night! I've been down several times for events (haven't actually entered G1C yet though) and the vibe is great. I am hoping to see a Kings game within the next week or two. My plan B was to go see Tourek, or whatever it is called, because the tickets are pretty low and I really just want to see the venue and eat some good food inside. I will be down tonight to check out a couple of the local restaurants as well.
So far I've been really liking the food options at G1C.
All these LOCAL Restaurants/Bars have FRESH food and drink options at G1C:
Cafe Bernardo (California Fresh)
Centro Cocina Mexicana
LowBrau (Locally Brewed Beer, German Bratwurst)
Mikkuni (Japanese; Sushi)
Petra (Greek; gyros)
Mulvaney's B&L (Local Central Valley Cole Slaw, Pulled Pork)
Paraguays (Local Wood fired Pizzas and Salads,)
Sellands (Local; Fresh Salads, French-Italian Inspired)
El Jefe (Mexican, Tacos, burritos, etc)
Porchetta (Rotisserie, Chicken, Turkey, Patatas)
Star Ginger (fresh Thai Food!)
Tandoori Palace (fresh Indian Food!)
Sierra Nevada Draught House (Locally Brewed Beer)
Yes, the routes exist but the additional trains, the extended hours - only for the arena crowd but not late enough for the theater crowd, the extra security - only for times when people would be traveling to the arena, and the ambassadors at the stations - only for the arena crowd, did not.
How much is this costing RT? And yet RT is asking us for more money. Higher fares and more taxes for fewer services during normal operating hours.
Are you offering? Didn't think so. Just stop making me pay for it. Live up to the promises that only arena patrons would be paying the costs. But I know that is never going to happen either.
Do you realize how petty you sound with this complaint?? Do you hate your city or the people in it? Because that's how it's beginning to sound. You are talking about citizens of the city you live in riding public transportation, not money being funneled from the US Treasury to Ranadive's personal account. And your taxes have not gone up one cent because of this. If I am wrong, post the % rate increase in your state and federal income taxes that is tied to this (actually don't - I don't want to argue more stupid BS LOL). You cannot, because it didn't happen. If you're taking this to a theoretical argument about government spending, then there are a million other government "waste" programs that are spending far more than the cost of a free bus ride, and are not providing anyone with any benefits whatsoever. Why not be mad about those instead of this?
LOL, I mean, we are talking about free bus rides? Seriously? That's your grand example of being screwed? Hahaha! I think you are making a better argument for the pro arena folks than they could make themselves.
Your microscope about anything with the Arena screams of hypocrisy.
Any additional costs are paid either by the Kings and/or the purchaser of the event ticket holder at G1C.
The additional trains usually amount to no more than 2 more trains per Gold and Blue lines, and it's not just for the G1C crowd anyone can use those extra trains, including the theater crowd. Also, extra trains are not needed for G1C events that occur during the day.
Security is needed to protect the public/public transit users from criminals. Ambassadors help to get more people to use public transit overall including trains and buses.
When you bring in 17,500 to 20,000 people into the downtown/midtown area at least once a week, it has the positive affect of increasing business for the small businesses in that 10-20 block area. It has the long term affect of making downtown/midtown more attractive to a lot of people overall. Which leads to a more vibrant downtown.
It's almost hilarious. I was laughing while I read this. He's the same guy that would complain up and down about traffic and violence if nothing was spent on public transportation or security. Personally, I like the people in my town and I prefer that they stay safe.
You know, when the arena had its initial pre-viewing for season ticket holders, some 50 something year old guy rode by on a bike past security. Security said "excuse me, are you a season ticket holder? You cannot go past the gates if you are not". He barked back "My tax dollars are paying for this arena! You're telling me I cannot go look at it!"
The irony. I turned to the security guard and pointed out the irony of guy on a bike, who could ride it just blocks from the stadium, lock it up and walk to any event without paying a parking fee, complaining that he personally paid for it to be built.
MyNews' complaint is akin to me raising hell at Target because I had to pay 10 cents for a bag. That's seriously a reasonable comparison. "Where is my 10 cents going for this bag! I want a clerk to walk these groceries out to my car!" LOL.
The anti-arena crybabies will complain about everything that has to do with the arena. They do not want nice things in the central city. They seriously do not like anything nice for our cities. If not a single dime of tax money went to the Arena, they still would have tried to stop it.
Right now they are complaining about a 15 story building. They complain, hinder, obstruct because they can do it and our system, process and laws make it easy for them to hinder. Most often, the complainers are not the doers, builders, creators, risk-takers of the world, rather the anti-arena types are the parasites, takers, blood suckers of the world .
Any additional costs are paid either by the Kings and/or the purchaser of the event ticket holder at G1C.
The kings and the ticket holders are NOT paying for these additional costs. You keep making that statement and seem to be unable to provide any proof. Every deal that was discussed in the media - adding a ticket surcharge, finding a sponsor, having the kings fund it in exchange for free advertising on buses - fell through. RT is pulling it out of their already limited budget.
Just look at how much money RT is losing in fare revenue for each event. Estimates show that 3,000 people rode to just one event, all without paying a dime. If one third of them used a bus to get to the train, that would make 4,000 one-way fares and 1,000 day passes or $18,000. Wouldn't that influx of income help to offset the costs and maybe let RT lower its fares for everyone?
The discounted fares ($5.50 day pass for one person and $14 day pass for four people) are only available if you have a ticket to an arena event. So, no, the theater crowd cannot take advantage of this. Also, the last arena event train leaves before the theater gets out.
As for the city costs, the city specifically structured the deal so that you can't point to a source of revenue being used. It is General Fund money. They identified some revenue streams into the General Fund that might be used but none of that money is earmarked and none of it is guaranteed. Out of one side of their mouth, we hear, "There is plenty of money to service the bonds and pay for the increased police and lighting and other amenities for the arena." Out of the other side, we hear, "We can't keep libraries open unless you add this tax" and "We have a $19 million yearly deficit and we need to extend this tax" and "We can't afford to fix the lights in the park unless you create a parks assessment district" and "We can't repair the roads unless you add this tax." It is ironic that the amount of the projected deficit is almost identical to the amount of the the bond service payment and I find it hard to believe it is just a coincidence.
Yes, my taxes are going up and part of it is to pay for the arena despite promises to the contrary. Yes, money is being funneled into Ranadive's picket. Any expense he can avoid is additional profit. The kings organization is rich enough to have built it themselves. If that had been the case, I doubt there would have been as much opposition.
I really don't care if I sound petty. Those of us who were against the public funding of this project knew that taxes on residents of the city would be increased to pay for it ... even for the guy on the bike who lives close enough that he can ride his bike to the area. Whether he pays for parking is irrelevant; the money is coming from the General Fund.
Yes, the routes exist but the additional trains, the extended hours - only for the arena crowd but not late enough for the theater crowd, the extra security - only for times when people would be traveling to the arena, and the ambassadors at the stations - only for the arena crowd, did not.
How much is this costing RT? And yet RT is asking us for more money. Higher fares and more taxes for fewer services during normal operating hours.
Are you offering? Didn't think so. Just stop making me pay for it. Live up to the promises that only arena patrons would be paying the costs. But I know that is never going to happen either.
Good stuff! Rep point for you. I know it's hard trying to reason with freeloaders.
The anti-arena crybabies will complain about everything that has to do with the arena. They do not want nice things in the central city. They seriously do not like anything nice for our cities. If not a single dime of tax money went to the Arena, they still would have tried to stop it.
Right now they are complaining about a 15 story building. They complain, hinder, obstruct because they can do it and our system, process and laws make it easy for them to hinder. Most often, the complainers are not the doers, builders, creators, risk-takers of the world, rather the anti-arena types are the parasites, takers, blood suckers of the world .
I agree. This guy is convinced he's made some great point about public services being extended LOL. OK, whatever. No one's income taxes have gone up because of this and any assertion otherwise is a flat out lie. The only argument you could make is some theoretical argument that the money would be better spent on something else. And that "something" in his example is something he feels like he should personally sign off on and approve (so it probably does not exist). This is the type of person that basically never wants a penny spent on anything and rants about taxes for the sake of ranting.
Complaining about bus routes being extended is asenine. The cost is not material and even if the Kings paid 100% of the cost of the entire stadium and everything associated with it you're going to need additional public services when you have events, period. So when you break it down, what he's basically saying is he doesn't want any events - stadium or not.
Good for him, he's mad about people riding busses and security. I can think of 100 more important things to get mad about.
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