How gay friendly are Rocklin and Roseville? (Sacramento, Davis: transfer, schools)

[pba]

Originally Posted by cityx

You seem to base your entire argument on the metrics of your interpretation of the Christian belief system. But, what if an individual is atheist or belongs to another non-Christian faith, then what?? Well, then your argument would be baseless and irrelevant because there would be no Christian god as a consideration, correct? The arrogancy and inflated self-importance of you moralists never cease to amaze me.

Wow, lots of $ 5 words in that amoral statement. Whether or not a person believes in God or not does not is irrelevant to this argument. Non-Christians, atheists, etc., can all committ sins. The word of God is never baseless or irrelevant because His word covers all people in the world regardless of their person beliefs. It's sad that you believe this is a display of 'inflated self-importance' because, as usual, your narrow and largely mis-informed viewpoints clearly represent the minority in this country.

If you are a non-believer in God then you really shouldn't use the word sin. Definition of sin:

1.transgression of divine law

It's not talking about local, state or federal law but instead 'divine' is the key. The divine laws of the Bible rule over us all whether you believe it or not.

[david55838]

Originally Posted by pba

Wow, lots of $ 5 words in that amoral statement. Whether or not a person believes in God or not does not is irrelevant to this argument. Non-Christians, atheists, etc., can all committ sins. The word of God is never baseless or irrelevant because His word covers all people in the world regardless of their person beliefs. It's sad that you believe this is a display of 'inflated self-importance' because, as usual, your narrow and largely mis-informed viewpoints clearly represent the minority in this country.

If you are a non-believer in God then you really shouldn't use the word sin. Definition of sin:

1.transgression of divine law

It's not talking about local, state or federal law but instead 'divine' is the key. The divine laws of the Bible rule over us all whether you believe it or not.

What's amoral is that you 'Christians' think that your god 'covers' everyone in the world. Guess what? There are a lot of fundamentalists out there who think their god covers you. And they believe just as fervently as you do. You think you're right, and they think they are. That's where the arrogance and ego comes in, and that is (part of) what's wrong with this world.

[zen_klown]

Originally Posted by cityx

That would be nice wouldn't it? Unfortunately, your simplistic view of the realities of society isn't very accurate. Conservatives, the religious right, racists, moralists, are all about telling people how they should live their lives. It comes down from the pulpit, down into the streets with people protesting in front of McDonald's and at funerals, and marching around around Capitol Park. Granted, these are the extreme examples but one doesn't have to march down the street condemning people to get their views across. The snickers, the ridiculing, the whispering behind backs, the way people still get hired for jobs based on race, gender, or perceived sexual orientation, and overall discrimination is still widespread. Of course, you are probably white so you have absolutely no clue as to what the realities of being a minority actually are. If entire groups of people have been judged, persecuted, and marginalized for generations it's no surprise they would bitter, defensive, suspicious, and judgemental as well.
Now go away with your baloney!

I think you are being a bit duplicitous here.

It isn't just the right that tries to legislate morality and tell people how to think. The people who advocate criminalization of sodomy are trying to legislate a specific morality. But the people mandating the teaching of "My Two Dads" into the curriculum are also trying to legislate their specific version of morality as well.

A big purpose of a lot of the anti-discrimination legislation is to limit what people can say, so as to control what they can think. This is why the left tries to stigmitise the use of racial and sexual epithets and why the use of these terms is actionable under anti-discrimination statutes. This is the reason for enhanced penalties for hate crimes. The goal clearly is to legislate a specific morality here. To argue that the left hasn't or isn't trying to legislate a specific morality is a bit disingenious.

Both sides try to legislate morality, the issue is which morality will be legislated and who benefits and who is hurt by that specific morality that we codify.

Neither side is that consistent. You can probably get a majority of folks to agree that killing others is a bad thing. But, the right is more willing to do it for personal or national defense or to punish criminality, the left is more willing to do it to avoid inconviencing the mother or if someone is very ill. Truthfully people don't have very consistent beliefs about stuff like not killing other people. You can find plenty of people who want to stop animal testing, but have no problem with abortion.

Consistency is not a human virtue.

I think it would be a lot more honest if people just admitted that they wanted to legislate the morality that advanced their interests the most and that is was all just a naked power grab but its probably more enjoyable to just demonize with rightous indignation the viewpoints of the people who disagree with you.

[Alisande]

Originally Posted by cityx

That would be nice wouldn't it? Unfortunately, your simplistic view of the realities of society isn't very accurate. Conservatives, the religious right, racists, moralists, are all about telling people how they should live their lives. It comes down from the pulpit, down into the streets with people protesting in front of McDonald's and at funerals, and marching around around Capitol Park. Granted, these are the extreme examples but one doesn't have to march down the street condemning people to get their views across. The snickers, the ridiculing, the whispering behind backs, the way people still get hired for jobs based on race, gender, or perceived sexual orientation, and overall discrimination is still widespread. Of course, you are probably white so you have absolutely no clue as to what the realities of being a minority actually are. If entire groups of people have been judged, persecuted, and marginalized for generations it's no surprise they would bitter, defensive, suspicious, and judgemental as well.
Now go away with your baloney!

How predictable.

[pba]

Originally Posted by david55838

What's amoral is that you 'Christians' think that your god 'covers' everyone in the world. Guess what? There are a lot of fundamentalists out there who think their god covers you. And they believe just as fervently as you do. You think you're right, and they think they are. That's where the arrogance and ego comes in, and that is (part of) what's wrong with this world.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough. I do NOT think God covers everyone in the world. I know God covers everyone in the entire universe. It's not limited to just earth. When you talk the way you do I feel sorry for you because your words are clearly driven by the devil. I hope you awaken someday to see the truth.

Anyone who thinks another God exists is also being driven by the devil so I feel sorry for them as well. There is no other God that covers me regardless of what anyone else thinks. Now why would you call this arrogance? It's a belief, pure and simple.

[pba]

Originally Posted by david55838

Ah, so PBA finally shows his true colors, as a bible thumping hater. I knew it all along based on his earlier posts - even though he tried to deflect it. Your modern Christian god is not what many people believe in. The bible isn't right just because YOU say it is. How Bushlike. As CityX says, your arrogance is only matched by your simple mindedness. You protest and have such an opinion on homosexuality - perhaps you doth protest TOO much. Are YOU without sin? Don't be casting stones then. Jesus would be ashamed of you - and those like you. This holier than thou crap is not what he taught. You've corrupted Christianity to match your own little fearful view of the world. Don't leave Mather, whatever you do.

The Bible is the true word of God. That's not a fact because I say it's a fact. It's our job (Christians) to help spread the word of God. I also did NOT say that homesexuality is a sin. I was pointing out what the Bible has to say about homosexuality. The Bible says that homosexuals will not have a share in the Kingdom of God. So I wasn't even expressing my opinion on whether homesexuality is a sin or not. Again, and maybe I should say it more plainly so you'll understand, I'm conveying the word of God for you to figure out what that means to you.

Did I ever say I was without sin? Of course not, I'm human and we all committ sins. Am I saying I'm 'holier than thou'? Of course not. You really shouldn't put words in my mouth and draw conclusions based on things that are not true.

A few posts ago someone said homosexuality isn't a sin so that's the discussion I was trying to continue with. 'Sin' is a biblical term and the Bible preaches against homosexuality so therefore the Bible says homosexuality is a sin.

My point was that the person who posted that shouldn't mix biblical words if they are making a non-biblical argument. Is that really that hard for you to understand?

[david55838]

Originally Posted by pba

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough. I do NOT think God covers everyone in the world. I know God covers everyone in the entire universe. It's not limited to just earth. When you talk the way you do I feel sorry for you because your words are clearly driven by the devil. I hope you awaken someday to see the truth.

Anyone who thinks another God exists is also being driven by the devil so I feel sorry for them as well. There is no other God that covers me regardless of what anyone else thinks. Now why would you call this arrogance? It's a belief, pure and simple.

Wow, just wow. I feel REALLY sorry for you, and even sorrier for your children. Everyone who doesn't see things your way is driven by the devil. Is that so? Nice to see that condescension goes along with your arrogance. I hope YOU awaken one day and see how close-minded and intolerant you are.

Your last line here is the only real one - it's a belief. Others are entitled to their beliefs as well. If your belief is teaching you that everyone who doesn't believe the same things you do is wrong and you're right, then something ain't right. Over and out.

[pba]

Originally Posted by david55838

Wow, just wow. I feel REALLY sorry for you, and even sorrier for your children. Everyone who doesn't see things your way is driven by the devil. Is that so? Nice to see that condescension goes along with your arrogance. I hope YOU awaken one day and see how close-minded and intolerant you are.

Your last line here is the only real one - it's a belief. Others are entitled to their beliefs as well. If your belief is teaching you that everyone who doesn't believe the same things you do is wrong and you're right, then something ain't right. Over and out.

You must not be very familiar with the Bible. The Bible teaches us that anyone that preaches against the word of God is doing the devil's work. In this case, this is exactly what you're doing. Unfortunately, if you keep on the same path you're on then you're really putting your eternal future at risk.

Yes, I do believe that everyone that thinks differently than me is wrong when it comes to believing in God. The hardest part about having a strong faith is being able to stand up to anyone and everyone that doesn't believe the same way.

Again, it's not me passing judgement because that's not my responsibility at all. I'm also not being condescending about any of this. If that were the case then I would have said something like, "I'm better than you because of what I believe in." However, you've never heard anything like that from me.

Am I close-minded? The answer here is a definite YES! My faith in God leads me to believe He is the one truth in this world and His word is all I need. Whatever God says is the absolute truth and if anyone says anything that contradicts God's word then then are 100% wrong. In no way does that make me less tolerant but, AGAIN, I'm simply conveying the word of God to you that he's given us in the Bible.

[sourgr8ps]

Hey guys,

Please don't lump all of us Christians into "haters" or a bunch of ignorant, homophobic people because we are certainly not. There are plenty of diversity affirming Christ based religions out there that either welcome homosexuals into their congregation or that are very close to changing their philosophies on homosexuality. I've been a member of the United Church of Christ since the 1980s and we have always been progressive and inclusive to all peoples. We believe that Christ would have wanted us to treat each other with dignity, respect, and acceptance despite our differences.

[Ludachris]

Faith in God certainly can be good. But it can obviously cause a lot of hatred, wars, bloodshed, and in this case, arguments. The Bible has been used for just as many horrible acts as it has been used for good. Slavery was justified by people using religion at one point in time. Innocent people were burned alive because of the Bible. Some of the most sickening acts in human history were committed in the name of Christ.

In my opinion, it's good to have faith in God. But it's also good to question all religions from time to time and realize that the Bible was written LONG ago and that interpretations can be very different depending on who reads it. I think homosexuality is not necessarily what God intended. But it's here and I doubt God put homosexuals here so they could be cast off as outsiders, discriminated against, beaten and/or killed. I think it's the ultimate test to see how we treat each other as human beings. And so far it's not all that great.

This is very similar to talking a person out of blowing himself up on a bus. In his eyes, he's doing God's work and he'll happily blow you up in the process. If you can't change his mind, best of luck changing anyone's mind about homosexuality. Ahhhh religion. The best and worst thing about humanity.