"I Can't Live Downtown, I Have Children!" (San Francisco: real estate market, sex offenders)

[wburg]

I hear this a lot.

There are plenty of people who love downtown and midtown Sacramento. They love the houses, love the trees, love the culture. And often, people who love midtown fall in love with other midtown residents--and children is a common result.

But once the children appear, and get up to school age, it becomes time to abandon the neighborhood they care about and run off to a place they hate, or, at best, may learn to tolerate--the suburbs.

Why? Schools.

It can't be the lack of space to play and run: midtown has plenty of single-family homes with backyards, and you're never more than a few blocks from a neighborhood park. Midtown's trees, architectural beauty and human scale means a trip to the park is almost redundant. It's not constant traffic--most streets in midtown are narrow two-lane streets, and even the major thoroughfares aren't that busy outside of rush hour. It's not even the size of the houses: most of the homes in the central city started out as family homes, with bigger families than we have now.

The line I hear, time and again, is the schools.
From what I see on school-grading websites, the schools in the central city are middling at best, with some exceptions (Sutter Middle School and some of the elementary schools in East Sac get high marks) but, overall, the schools aren't great.

This lack robs the central city of much potential vitality. It robs us of people at the prime of their earning power, at the age where they become most concerned with the safety and well-being of their community. It also robs these neighborhoods of children. Not that midtown is without kids entirely--but proportionally the age of central city residents skews much higher than anywhere outside of town. Very few people under 20, very few people between 30-50, with an abundance of people in their twenties and older than fifty. The main exceptions are couples without children.

There are a few special cases. A friend of mine pays for his teenage daughter to go to private school, even though his income level is very modest compared to most who do so.

My question is, what has to happen to fix public schools in central cities? How can midtown Sacramento keep people who, other than the issue of schools, would love to live here? (CityGirl72, I'm looking at you!)

[NewToCA]

This question can be mentioned about many cities.

Though my kids are now grown I can tell you that priorities are for safety and activities. These are readily available in the suburbs, as parents form play groups and establish pre and after school activities.

Kids also need to be able to walk around without parents fear of the kids being snatched off the street. Crime stats don't support choosing city living. Look at Sac crime statistics (rating of 665.9) vs Rocklin (rating of 171.7) or Folsom (rating of 166.6):

Sacramento, California (CA) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, news, sex offenders
Rocklin, California (CA) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, news, sex offenders
Folsom, California (CA) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, news, sex offenders

I say this as one who actually grew up myself in an urban environment, in a row house only about 8 miles north of the center of downtown Philly (in a 14 ft wide rowhouse). We bought all of our homes in the suburbs, to raise our kids.

[CityGirl72]

Oh I knew you were looking at me when I saw the title of the post

I dunno what I'm going to do. I lived in Midtown and you are right - it's great and the only deterant was the public schools. Had I stayed I would have fought to get my child into one of the East Sac schools. We did a ton of things with my child there and I never felt like having a child in Midtown was hard to do.

But I also rented. And was single too. 1200 sqft is a ton when it's just you are your toddler. But I moved to Seattle and bought (with my now husband) 1300 sqft. Which is not enough space with two kids and two adults - I feel squished to death.

So we need a TON more room. And the older homes don't have it unless we have tons of $$$$

And here's my other issue. We live in Seattle in a very "Midtown-ish" neighborhood up here - where schools are "just okay". Everyone in Seattle does the same and either puts their kid in private schools or moves away to the burbs (here it's the "Eastside") Seems to be a reoccuring theme - I've read many news articles that this happens across the country

So what do I do? Move to the burbs (Folsom) and try to get in the older established area, close to Fair Oaks, and live near the American River Bike trail, and hope that it's "enough" for me? I want my kids to have a good education and be around other families. Ride there bikes in safe clean neighborhoods and have more then 2000 sqft (we are looking at 2200 to 2400), so that I don't want to choke my family to death.

Maybe this is the phase of my life? If we stayed here in Seattle - we decided we need the burbs here too. it's just not family-ish enough here, and the houses are small.

But would my husband and I love to move to Midtown - you betcha! Could you help us find a nice 2200 sqft 4 bedroom home for 400K?? (and not that beat up one - I saw that!)

I have a real estate search looking in Midtown/East Sac/Land Park JUST IN CASE....

[CityGirl72]

AHHH to answer your question - yes the schools are the issue - but so is the change of lifestyle. Along with the suburb schools comes the "family lifestyle" housing and neighborhoods which in the grand scheme of things is why we would move there - for our children - not for ourselves.

When I had my children I promised to give up my life and give 100% loyalty to them
(with in reason of course)

[NewToCA]

Originally Posted by CityGirl72

AHHH to answer your question - yes the schools are the issue - but so is the change of lifestyle. Along with the suburb schools comes the "family lifestyle" housing and neighborhoods which in the grand scheme of things is why we would move there - for our children - not for ourselves.

When I had my children I promised to give up my life and give 100% loyalty to them
(with in reason of course)

A lot of parents have similar sentiments, but you can always move to a Midtown type of environment after the last one goes off to college.

[CityGirl72]

Originally Posted by NewToCA

A lot of parents have similar sentiments, but you can always move to a Midtown type of environment after the last one goes off to college.

That's what I said in an earlier post this week, that as soon as the last one is out of high school, that we will sell and move back to Midtown

But that could be 18 years or more away

[wburg]

I suppose I just have trouble with the "we can always move back once the kids move out" argument. By then you're 20 years older, and you deprive your kids of growing up someplace special (instead of someplace generic that had better schools.)

I suppose part of my grumpiness about this comes because I grew up in a generic suburb and HATED IT. I'd visit my aunt in midtown as a teenager in the 1980s (when it was a lot more run-down and a lot less safe than it is now) and was just so amazed how different it was from where I grew up.
The exact kind of support systems you mention (parents knowing each other) occur in the central city, among groups of friends who become mutually supporting, and this mutual support often extends to early childhood care (most of my friends with kids babysit each other's kids on a round-robin basis, etc.) so there's no reason why the same sort of parental support groups couldn't continue into the school years.

NewToCA: Those are citywide statistics, not neighborhood-specific, so it's kind of apples & oranges. Midtown or East Sacramento is far, far safer than South Sacramento or Del Paso Heights, for example, even though they're all in the same city.

I suppose it's one of those heavy-duty problems that will require a heavy-duty solution. The first city to solve the thorny issue of central city schools will, I'd expect, cause a boom in the central-city real estate market that will make people's heads spin.

[NewToCA]

wburg, while sympathetic to your sentiments about the plusses of experiencing that type of environment, for most parents the negatives outweigh the positives.

As I see this discussion, I believe you would like ideas on how to remedy the situation. I have a couple of suggestions that I believe would go a long way towards meeting your objectives, school vouchers and a Midtown Community Center.

For example, something like we had in my former Ohio community:

Dublin Community Recreation Center (DCRC)

City of Westerville, Ohio > City Departments > Parks & Recreation > Community Center (http://www.westerville.org/CityDepartments/ParksRecreation/CommunityCenter/tabid/111/Default.aspx - broken link)

[amy_kaden]

[SIZE=3]I couldn’t agree with you more. We live in East Sacramento and are now leaving for Folsom. I love, love, love… this area. I want to jump off a bridge for having to leave it. I can live with the small two bedroom without a driveway and the lack of a garage. I can’t tolerate the mediocre schools. Yes we do have some descent elementary schools but once you go to middle school or high school you’re forced to go privet. We do not have the means for privet school and even if we did I refuse to send my children to a religious school. A friend was just forced to sign a “family values contract” stating they were opposed to homosexuality and gay marriage in order to enroll their child into one of these schools. I hope I can find some likeminded families in Folsom. I am so sad to leave.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Amy[/SIZE]

[ukiyo-e]

I raised my son in San Francisco until he was 12, when we moved to Davis. The pros of being in the city were the easy access to cultural amenities, the parks, the ocean, etc. The cons were TERRIBLE schools - I put him in a fairly inexpensive private elementary school, but there was no way I could pay $20K plus for private high school like most of his friends back there ended up attending. It was really not that safe for him to ride his bike anywhere, so I would drive him and his bike to Golden Gate Park so he could ride there. Because of the private school, his friends were scattered all over the city, and none lived near us. Very few of my neighbors spoke English, so we had no sense of community.

In contrast, the schools here in Davis were great (he's in college now and breezing through), he could bike anywhere and I didn't worry about him being hit by cars or hassled by panhandlers, and my neighbors, even the foreign-born ones, can communicate with me. There is a very strong sense of community in the neighborhood, and the parks and bike trails are kid heaven. He never regretted us moving here, though he still likes to go back to SF to visit; in fact, he took Amtrak in today to spend the day there with his girlfriend.

I'm not so sure all suburbs are the mind-numbingly dull places some would have us believe. I think you need to choose wisely and if you're located near a large city, you can easily access all it has to offer.