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Old 04-24-2011, 02:06 PM
 
1,120 posts, read 2,050,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cityx View Post

Since I moved to other side of the river I noticed a large concentration of Russian / Ukrainian people. Since this demographic was one of the most vocal in hitting the streets during the anti gay marriage / Prop 8 debate I can't help but feel complete and utter disgust for these people. However, I am trying very hard to achieve some level of understanding for their ignorance.


When I lived in Sacramento, these folks were not calling the Sacramento area home. But they sure are now.

Most immigrants have had long-held desires to be Americans and what that represents. But these folks seemingly don't want to abide by our customs and traditions. They think their way of life is superior to ours.
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:33 PM
 
8,256 posts, read 12,625,472 times
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If you last lived here in the late 1980s, you basically have no idea what living here is like now. There is a pretty large gay/lesbian community, and it's pretty safe to assume that some of those Soviet refugees are part of it.

San Francisco is great, but if I had a dollar for every time I was approached by a crazy person in San Francisco, I could probably pay a month's rent on a San Francisco apartment.
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Old 04-24-2011, 01:43 PM
 
1,120 posts, read 2,050,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post

If you last lived here in the late 1980s, you basically have no idea what living here is like now. There is a pretty large gay/lesbian community, and it's pretty safe to assume that some of those Soviet refugees are part of it.

San Francisco is great, but if I had a dollar for every time I was approached by a crazy person in San Francisco, I could probably pay a month's rent on a San Francisco apartment.



When I lived in Sacramento, the California economy was performing extremely well. Extremely well! Home appreciation in certain areas of California was a little over 1 percent A MONTH. If anything, Sacramento is in worse shape today.

With state jobs being eliminated and benefits being reduced, state workers are not happy campers. That fact alone has negative repercussions for the area and for many families in general.

Of course there's gay Soviet refugees. But that's not so much on the radar screen. The killing of the gay man in the park by Russians is on the radar screen. Likewise, the strict discipline that many of these refugee children face by their parents is on the radar screen, too. Unfortunately the strict discipline in many cases appears to be child abuse.

I've been in San Francisco a lot and I've never been confronted by a crazy person. Not once. But I was in Sacramento.
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:50 PM
 
40 posts, read 53,987 times
Reputation: 41
nope,it is so fantastic.
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Old 04-24-2011, 12:27 AM
 
Location: NOLA -> DMV Area
110 posts, read 182,402 times
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My aunt came to visit someone in SAC before. She just said that it as 'slow' compared to her hometown (New Orleans).
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Old 04-24-2011, 09:47 PM
 
8,256 posts, read 12,625,472 times
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State jobs aren't being eliminated--at worst, positions where people have retired aren't being refilled. And I'm not sure what the economy has to do with Sacramento being boring or not--it's actually more interesting here in a cultural/social sense than it was during the boom. More restaurants, dance clubs, live music venues, stage theater, art galleries, cafes, and more people out and about interested in such things. In fact, the closest period to when things were nearly this interesting was during the early 1990s recession--something about poor economies seems to bring out a creative streak in people. State employees are a little grim about the situation--but they realize it could be a lot worse (such as, say, if Whitman had won the election.) Economically, things are a lot worse for other workers in sectors like construction. But a lot of people are refusing to let the economy get them down--new businesses are still opening, people are still out and about. As I said, if your last stay here was the 1980s, you have absolutely no clue what Sacramento is like now.

If you're talking about the murder of Satender Singh, you are aware that was 4 years ago, right? And it was actually well outside the city of Sacramento, right? So no, it's not really on the radar screen that much anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zel Ya View Post
When I lived in Sacramento, these folks were not calling the Sacramento area home. But they sure are now.

Most immigrants have had long-held desires to be Americans and what that represents. But these folks seemingly don't want to abide by our customs and traditions. They think their way of life is superior to ours.
People have said that about every group of immigrants to hit our shores since the Irish and Germans in the mid-19th century, and it's just as much utter BS now as it was then. Besides, last time I checked, homophobia, bigotry and intolerance were long-held American traditions--ones we are just now starting to overcome. I would almost be tempted to say that by painting all those immigrating from the former Soviet Union with such a broad, unspecific brush might make you just as guilty of stereotyping and falling victim to prejudice.
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Old 04-30-2011, 12:39 PM
 
1,120 posts, read 2,050,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post

State jobs aren't being eliminated--at worst, positions where people have retired aren't being refilled. And I'm not sure what the economy has to do with Sacramento being boring or not--it's actually more interesting here in a cultural/social sense than it was during the boom. More restaurants, dance clubs, live music venues, stage theater, art galleries, cafes, and more people out and about interested in such things. In fact, the closest period to when things were nearly this interesting was during the early 1990s recession--something about poor economies seems to bring out a creative streak in people. State employees are a little grim about the situation--but they realize it could be a lot worse (such as, say, if Whitman had won the election.) Economically, things are a lot worse for other workers in sectors like construction. But a lot of people are refusing to let the economy get them down--new businesses are still opening, people are still out and about. As I said, if your last stay here was the 1980s, you have absolutely no clue what Sacramento is like now.

If you're talking about the murder of Satender Singh, you are aware that was 4 years ago, right? And it was actually well outside the city of Sacramento, right? So no, it's not really on the radar screen that much anymore.


People have said that about every group of immigrants to hit our shores since the Irish and Germans in the mid-19th century, and it's just as much utter BS now as it was then. Besides, last time I checked, homophobia, bigotry and intolerance were long-held American traditions--ones we are just now starting to overcome. I would almost be tempted to say that by painting all those immigrating from the former Soviet Union with such a broad, unspecific brush might make you just as guilty of stereotyping and falling victim to prejudice.


I just checked the Internet. SACRAMENTO COUNTY HAD THE BIGGEST JOB LOSS OF 327 LARGEST U.S. COUNTIES IN 2010 Q 3.

State jobs in Sacramento are a driving force for the local economy. Some of county job loss must be attributed to the loss of state jobs either directly or indirectly.

With a shrinking job base, it just doesn't add up that more people are out and about. And with the high cost of gas, it doesn't add up that more people are out and about. With reduced incomes, or no income, people cut back on their expenditures. Especially discretionary spending like eating out and watching movies.

Part of your post is contradictory. You say that state jobs are NOT being eliminated. But then you later say that state workers are grim about the situation. Grim? Why are state workers grim about the situation? No jobs are being eliminated.

I can assure that the murder is still on peoples' minds. You can't lightly brush this off as a trivial matter. Many people in the Russian community are confrontational and they apparently do not want to adopt American customs and traditions.
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Old 04-30-2011, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Bryte, CA
2,070 posts, read 4,213,643 times
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There will be a permanent reduction of government employees. That is a given. What percentage is unknown, and what percentage in Sacramento is another unknown. There are plenty of state employees in other parts of California. Especially San Diego, LA, and San Jose.

I wouldn't call government a "driving force," but it is a significant amount. Transportation and logistics (distribution of products) is a large sector here. Construction was, temporarily. Technology exceeded government for awhile, but those jobs are being shipped out of the country.

Over the last decade Sacramento did very well economically. The unemployment rate didn't have the large changes many other parts of the state had. For awhile Sacramento and San Diego were the best places to find a job.

The local problem is our local government consists of a lot of people with little creativity. They think of jobs in numerical terms rather than what is a junk job or what is a good job. Big box stores were encouraged in the suburbs while overpriced "luxury" housing was encouraged Downtown, and without the consideration that it takes good jobs to support the latter.
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Old 04-30-2011, 06:22 PM
 
8,256 posts, read 12,625,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zel Ya View Post
I just checked the Internet. SACRAMENTO COUNTY HAD THE BIGGEST JOB LOSS OF 327 LARGEST U.S. COUNTIES IN 2010 Q 3.

State jobs in Sacramento are a driving force for the local economy. Some of county job loss must be attributed to the loss of state jobs either directly or indirectly.

With a shrinking job base, it just doesn't add up that more people are out and about. And with the high cost of gas, it doesn't add up that more people are out and about. With reduced incomes, or no income, people cut back on their expenditures. Especially discretionary spending like eating out and watching movies.

Part of your post is contradictory. You say that state jobs are NOT being eliminated. But then you later say that state workers are grim about the situation. Grim? Why are state workers grim about the situation? No jobs are being eliminated.

I can assure that the murder is still on peoples' minds. You can't lightly brush this off as a trivial matter. Many people in the Russian community are confrontational and they apparently do not want to adopt American customs and traditions.
The biggest area of job loss has been in construction, not government layoffs. Yes, there have been a few hundred positions lost in city and county government, but no actual layoffs at the state level (at worst, positions are being eliminated as people retire.) State workers are grim because of the furloughs, which cost 5-15% of each paycheck, and the hiring freezes, which often means that people can't be promoted because there is no way to provide a replacement for their own job. But they're still working, and at least now they're getting 95% of their paycheck instead of 85%, and that 10% is getting spent on things they put off when the furloughs were in full force.

People tend to assume that Sacramento is a one-industry town, but the other big local industry in Sacramento (since the canneries and the SP shops shut down, anyhow) is the construction industry, and their main product is suburbs. That particular product is now a drug on the market--and that's where the layoffs really are, in terms of numbers. In the private sector, not the public sector. KC6ZLV thins there "should" be far fewer state employees, but that's just his opinion, it doesn't bear much relationship to the facts.

As to the street scene, here's what is happening today:

Walk up, order up at Mobile Food Festival - Food & Wine - sacbee.com (http://www.sacbee.com/2011/04/29/3584259/walk-up-order-up-at-mobile-food.html - broken link)

From reports I have heard already, between 5,000 and 10,000 people showed up to eat at mobile gourmet food trucks in Fremont Park today. I didn't get a chance to go because I was at a home tour today with a couple thousand other people in Curtis Park, but it appears that there are some folks with disposable incomes to spend.

Maybe things are as grim as you make them out to be in the far-out suburbs, Rocklin and Rancho Cordova and whatnot, or maybe they're as homophobic as you claim (since, as I mentioned, the murder you keep talking about happened out in the suburbs, not the city of Sacramento.) IThe suburbs have received the bulk of the foreclosures, and probably the bulk of the layoffs. But you wouldn't really know it from hanging out in downtown Sacramento. Judging Sacramento by what happens in Rocklin is like judging San Francisco based on what happens in Hercules!

I get the sense that you aren't basing your assessment of Sacramento on anything but a few assorted news sources--you aren't here, you don't know what it is like, and you are in no position to pass judgment one way or another.
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Old 04-30-2011, 06:32 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,126 posts, read 26,660,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
The biggest area of job loss has been in construction, not government layoffs. Yes, there have been a few hundred positions lost in city and county government, but no actual layoffs at the state level (at worst, positions are being eliminated as people retire.) State workers are grim because of the furloughs, which cost 5-15% of each paycheck, and the hiring freezes, which often means that people can't be promoted because there is no way to provide a replacement for their own job. But they're still working, and at least now they're getting 95% of their paycheck instead of 85%, and that 10% is getting spent on things they put off when the furloughs were in full force.
Had I not retired when I did, a month later I would have been hit with over $1,000 a month in furlough losses. It wouldn't have been the end of the world for me but that would have been a substantive hit.

In my former department headquarters in Sacramento, they just announced 123 lay-offs which will be about 25% of the staff. Interesting enough, things have gotten so bad - more work and pressure - fewer people and other resources - that quite a few are actually looking forward to being put on the State Restriction of Appointments (SROA) lists which gives them priority to transfer to open positions, if any, in other departments and mandatory reinstatement rights.

It's a sad and disturbing state of affairs.
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