trying to decide where in CA to move/go back to school at (Los Angeles: middle-class)

[mir86]

so here's another thread about moving to Sac. I used to live in L.A. for about a year to go to school, but I hated it so I moved back home to AZ to get my head back on straight and figure out my next move. I am 23 single female, but I don't like living in downtown areas, but I would still like to be where there are a mix of people, not just all families and somewhere reasonably quiet. I don't enjoy urban living, and although I'm a typical female who enjoys typical female activities, I also like being outside and enjoying those things with people my age. although I'm very outgoing and love to do a lot of different things, I'm pretty conservative/modest in personality as well. I am not into partying and getting smashed at bars/clubs every weekend, even though I do enjoy the occasional bar outing. being around normal single people or even couples my age would be ideal though and wonder if Sac is a good fit. I'm debating at this point between Sac and San diego (SD only because a move itself would be cheaper being only 6 hours from home and I can still pursue my school plans).

So, job wise, I work in retail (somewhat high end stores) for now since I don't have my degree in anything yet, but I plan to finish up my fashion merchandising degree somewhere in CA, but at this point, at a community college since the trade schools are insanely expensive. I am also looking to go to school for the radiology tech. program so I can have a stable job with which I can use that money to pursue my own business ideas down the road. I know there are 2 school locations in Sac where I could be accepted, as well as one all the way in Santa Rosa. One of my jobs transfers to most places in CA so I'd have at least a part time job while I'm in school to hold me over once I move, until I find either another part time job or a full time job. I also will be bringing about 5,000 in savings minimum. I qualify very well for federal school grants so I'm not worried about paying for school and I don't think I'll need to take out very much in loans on top of my grants for living expenses until i'm in the rad. tech program.

I plan to move in about July of next year, but that might change to October next year so that I can finish one more prereq before I apply to the radiology tech programs in CA. I also plan to get my residency, as I plan to stay in CA for years.

So here's my dilemma: I really love northern CA but I can't afford the bay area. I was thinking Sonoma county since it appears to be slightly cheaper, at least with one other roommate. I'm just worried I won't even be able to find a retail job or anything semi ok for someone going to school, trying to get a degree, even when the economy there gets better. I also worry that Sonoma county isn't very singles friendly, but everyone I've talked to from there says its great for singles. I could be wrong though about the economy there. I'm also debating about San Diego, but I've been there many times and it just seems so obnoxiously college/party central which is not my thing, however the pro's about SD is it will be a cheaper move and its only 5-6 hours drive from home and I think the economy there is slightly better than Sac or sonoma county. the cons are if I wind up moving to other areas in so. cal later on, that leaves the inland empire which sounds horrible, OC which sounds eh, and L.A. which is gross. Also, when I lived in L.A. I hardly got to enjoy the beach and I don't want that to go to waste again in SD as I tend to see the beach only when I have time off or go on vacation, which is rare.

So now I'm debating about Sac area. I've researched and have spoken to people taht are from the area about if its a nice place to live and they've all raved about how wonderful it is and that on top of it, its way cheaper than the rest of CA, which sounds appealing to me. I don't want to live in mid-town though, doesn't seem safe for a single female and I don't like urban living. I was researching the Roseville area and it looks like I'd do fairly well financially with just one roommate and the area looks very nice. I'd be attending woodland community college campuses I believe if I do move to Sac so I don't know how much a commute would be, I still need to check that. I don't mind commuting a little bit if I can live in a nice area though. I also wonder if the areas west of Sac are ok too, like near Davis.

the other thing is, I've moved around a lot since I was 18 so at this point, I'm looking for a place where I can stay long term and grow some roots. Sac seems to make more sense as I can't afford to move anywhere further than 1,000 miles from where I live now, unless I have a job offer across county which won't happen since I have no degree yet. Also, I feel that if I wanted/needed to move from Sac later on, there are a lot of areas nearby that I wouldn't mind living in either.

So what do you all think? is Sac a good fit for me? or should I just move to San Diego anyways? I hope I've given a pretty good description of what I'm looking for so you all can help me out. thank you for any input!

[d_deathrage]

Before you move out here, you might want to read up on the residency requirements to make sure you won't have to pay out of state tuition in California which might throw off your budget assumptions.

You can read more about residency requirements here. If you have lost your California Residency, it may be cheaper to go to a community college in Arizona.

CRC - Cosumnes River College

Of all of the places you mentioned, the local economy in Sonoma is the strongest and the local economy in Sacramento is the weakest. The local unemployment rate is 9.9% in Sonoma County, its 10.2% in San Diego County 12.2% in Sacramento County.

http://www.calmis.ca.gov/file/lfmonth/satr$pds.pdf
http://www.calmis.ca.gov/file/lfmonth/sand$pds.pdf
http://www.calmis.ca.gov/file/lfmonth/sacr$pds.pdf

Because its further from the ocean, Sacramento gets hotter in summer and colder in the winter vs Sonoma or San Diego. The climate in both Sonoma and San Diego is pretty mild, but San Diego is a little warmer. You can pretty much walk around year round in shorts in San Diego (so even the places further from the beach have a beach feel). Sonoma is a little more brisk. Even in the summer, sometimes it feels a little to cool to go swimming. Most of the summer in Sacramento is above 90 degrees. In the wintertime, its much colder in Sac, than Sonoma or San Diego.

Most of the Sacramento region is pretty suburban. There are nice suburbs like Folsom and Rocklin and kind of middle class suburbs like Rancho Cordova or Citrus Heights. Folsom and Rocklin are probably similiar to say Thousand Oaks or Aguora Hills where as Citrus Heights and Rancho Cordova are more like Burbank and Glendale. What I am getting at is if you didn't like the suburban areas of LA, you might not care for the suburban areas of Sacramento.

No part of Sacramento is that urban. The downtown grid in Sacramento aspires to be the next Old town Pasadena, but its a lot less lively and hasn't quite yet pulled that off yet. Its probably somewhere between old town Pasadena and Eagle Rock. Parts of it have some life and parts of it are more of a work in progress or just kind of iffy.

People can dislike big cities for a couple of different reasons, sometimes its just the hassle of finding parking and dealing with homeless people at night but sometimes it because cities tend to attract people who are too caught up in themselves who feel superior mainly because they managed to rent an apartment in someplace that they think makes them cool. If the reason you dislike cities is the hassles of parallel parking and dealing with homeless people then you probably wouldn't want to live in the grid in Sacramento. In that case, you might want to live in say Campus Commons, College greens, or Davis which have a lot of college students and young people, but not a lot of homeless people.

But if the goal is to avoid people caught up in themselves, you still might want to the downtown grid in Sacramento a chance. The people most caught up on themselves in this region, move to someplace more glamorous so the social scene here is less cut throat.

The other place that might actually fit your needs best is Sonoma. As I pointed out, of all of the places you mentioned it has the strongest economy. Its also a pretty area. You are in the wine country, there are huge Redwood Forests nearby, the ocean is close. Its a pretty area. There are a bunch of small towns fairly close together, Santa Rosa, Rohnert Park, Sebastapol, Petaluma and Sonoma, that taken together act like a much bigger city, but because they are spread out, can be explored as smaller towns. Because there is a university, Sonoma State, and a community college in Santa Rosa, the area has a lot of people your age. If and when you want to make it out to a bigger city, you aren't that far away, its probably an hour or so to SF.

One other thing to mention is cost. I suspect that housing is probably cheapest in Sac and most expensive in San Diego.

[mir86]

Hi, thank you for all of taht! very helpful!

I actually did my research on residency requirements for CA schools and am finishing my prereqs for the rad. tech program here in AZ. The wait for that program is years here..like 5 years I believe where as in CA its a lottery system and I have a few more choices of schools there than I do here.

I'm very surprised that the economy in Sonoma is that much better than Sac. I've been to that area so I'm much more comfortable moving there anyways since I already know that I love it, but I wasn't there long enough to see how society there is. I do remember that the weather was kind of chilly, at least in north Marin in late august when I was in that region. Are people in Sonoma extremely liberal? I'm more on the conservative side so I worry that a lot of people there will be potheads or some thing like that. Weather in Sac doesn't sound too bad considering I'm an AZ girl and even though now I can't handle the desert weather here after living in LA, Sac's weather still sounds more tolerable than here.

As for L.A. suburbs compared to Sac suburbs, your analogy really helped a lot! I actually didn't mind the suburbs of L.A...I just hated downtown and hollywood through beverly hills area so the areas you compared sound very nice. I dislike big cities for all of the above actually..but parking and homeless people are a lot more tolerable for me than people that are caught up in themselves.

thanks again for the help! that was extremely helpful! where are you finding the unemployment statistics? does it factor in those that are unable to collect unemployment benefits anymore or whose benefits have run out? or is it everyone taht doesn't have a job, collecting benefits or not?

[d_deathrage]

For whatever reason, the links I cited in my last post weren't active, but you can copy the link address and put them in your browser to activate them. The data I cited is from the State of California.

In general the bay area is more liberal than the Sacramento region. Rush Limbaugh got his start in talk radio in Sacramento.

But there are different variations of liberals. In Berkeley and San Franciso, you have the angry militant protesting liberals. These are the people who throw paint on SUV's and burn flags.

In Sonoma its more yuppie liberals. The are fewer liberals and they are less militant . These liberals here tend to be liberal more for aesthetic reasons - to keep property values up. They want to retain the rural charm of Sonoma and preserve the wineries and redwoods. They like organic food, new age bookstores and driving Volvos. Think Santa Barbara or Topanga Canyon.

Sacramento is where Rush Limbaugh got his start. Rush Limbaugh often refers to Sacramento as his adopted hometown. In Sacramento you have mixture of people of both working class and wealthy Republicans. You have people who are conservative because they are former military, own guns and like hunting, playing paintball, or maybe like going mudding in 4x4's. You also have people who are socially conservative, the area is the home of a lot of people who fled religious persecution in the former Soviet Union. You can find a lot of the working class conservatives in Antelope, Rancho Cordova, Citrus Heights, the older parts of Roseville and the parts of Carmichael near American River College. Think Northridge, Glendale, Burbank and Simi Valley.

Folsom, Rocklin, Loomis, Granite Bay, Arden Park have more of the people who are conservative because they want lower capital gains taxes. Think San Marino, La Canada Flintridge, or Calabasas.

[mir86]

thank you for painting such a clear picture for me! now its just a matter of visiting, figuring out a budget and deciding where to ultimately settle

[wburg]

The other political demographic in Sacramento is the city of Sacramento itself, which is far more liberal than the picture d_deathrage paints. Some are closer to the Sonoma "yuppie liberal" demographic, especially in East Sac and Land Park, while the central city has more of a "san francisco lite" flavor--a large gay community, college students, and lots of state employees.
State employees represent another generally-liberal constituency. They generally aren't wealthy enough to be elitist Outer-Bay-Area yuppies (working for the state doesn't pay very well) nor are they radical protester types (state protests at the Capitol tend to be very well-mannered.) Sacramento as a whole is very middle-class-centric--people who get rich here tend to move to the Bay Area or the foothills, working-class people here tend to follow the work, but middle managers usually stay.

Sacramento's state and federal representatives are exclusively Democrats and have been for decades (Darrell Steinberg in the Senate, Dave Jones in the Assembly, Doris Matsui in the US House) and our last mayor's race was between two Democrats, Kevin Johnson and Heather Fargo. Johnson, the winner, was considered the less-liberal one, but he still had to win the support of unions and come out publicly against Proposition 8. He is a strong supporter of Barack Obama and has close connections with the Obama administration. Even then, it was the outlying suburban portions of Sacramento that won him the election--he lost the central city and inner neighborhoods. The only Republican in our last mayor's race got about 2% of the vote. Technically the mayor's race is non-partisan, but the last time a Republican sat in the mayor's chair was probably the mid-sixties.

If you don't like potheads, California might not be to your taste: marijuana can be obtained by anyone with a prescription, and while it is still illegal under federal law (and state law for those without a prescription) every major city (and most minor ones) has marijuana dispensaries, and there is an active movement to repeal the state marijuana law. I don't think one has to be liberal to smoke it either. Sonoma is much closer to the big marijuana-growing regions (the "Emerald Triangle" of Humboldt, Mendocino and Trinity Counties) so it is likely to be ridiculously commonplace up that way, especially in college communities.

Sacramento's central city is not a super-dense urban center, it is more like "L.A. Junior" (my wife grew up in Anaheim and that's how she describes it.) Midtown, the neighborhood that gets a lot of press these days, is kind of like the scruffier end of Melrose, with small boutiques and restaurants (plus clusters of bars and nightclubs) adjacent to residential neighborhoods of older homes. Downtown Sacramento is like a tiny version of downtown Los Angeles: busy on weekdays during business hours, a ghost town on weekends except for street people and the handful who live there.

[d_deathrage]

At any high school in America, I am willing to be you can find a certain percentage of people who smoke dope. So in that sense, you can find it marijuana anywhere in the country. But drug use varies by age and by location. I had a co-worker who had breast cancer and was on chemotherapy who told me about the problems of finding marijuana because none of her peers her own age smoked dope. She ended up driving out to Oakland to the cannabis dispensary there. I imagine if she lived in midtown and not Gold River and wasn't in her mid 40's she probably would have known more people who smoke dope.

I put smoking dope in the same category as prostitution, yes you can find it here if you are actively looking for it, but that isn't the same thing as saying that everyone here is engaged in it. Moreover if you want to avoid either activity, there are plenty of places in this region where you can live and have pretty much no contact with either the prostitution or drug subcultures. You just don't find streetwalkers in Arden Park or Fair Oaks. They aren't selling water pipes at the local grocery stores. If people in those neighborhoods are smoking dope or consorting with prostitutes they are doing it in such a discrete fashion that there neighbors aren't aware of it.

In these neighborhoods there is probably more of an active movement to strengthen drugs laws to protect children than weaken them.

That is different from say Berkeley or Venice where you have street vendors selling water pipes and t-shirts advocating cannabis.

My experience in Sonoma County has been whatever drug culture the region had, it was pretty discrete. I have met a lot of alcoholics in Santa Rosa, but so far no potheads. Some of it is that there is just a large wine culture that attracts a disproportionate amount of alcoholics from all over the country. But I also think its because anyone who views smoking dope as a lifestyle choice in the region is likely to move to Humboldt, Berkeley or Santa Cruz.

[mir86]

good point D. drug use is huge in AZ as well and we're supposedly more conservative, but I don't have friends who do it. those are not people I want to be around.

and Wburg: thank you as well

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by mir86

good point D. drug use is huge in AZ as well and we're supposedly more conservative, but I don't have friends who do it. those are not people I want to be around.

and Wburg: thank you as well

Of course, thank goodness not all kids use drugs, as for conservative: although Sac isn't super conservative, it is more so than many cities with a college right in the main part of town. Well almost main part.

Nita

[mir86]

Originally Posted by nmnita

Of course, thank goodness not all kids use drugs, as for conservative: although Sac isn't super conservative, it is more so than many cities with a college right in the main part of town. Well almost main part.

Nita

haha ya! Glad its not super conservative, I'm not THAT conservative.