Westfield Exiting Downtown Plaza (Finally !!) (Sacramento, Roseville: maintenance, tax, restaurant)

[Mr. Opinionated]

Originally Posted by NickB1967

Mostly yes. Sorry if the truth hurts.

Well I guess it would if your prejudiced opinion were factual. But since it's mythical instead, no need for asprin. Thanks.

[shelato]

Originally Posted by NickB1967

At one time they did want to bring a Wal-Mart to Downtown Plaza, but the Sac City Council and others had hissy fits. Gee, as if providing goods and services that the residents of current and future downtown housing need is a bad thing. And sorry, there are no old fashioned local businesses that a downtown Wal-Mart would crush, not anymore. They all left years ago.

The type of Mall that would work downtown is going to be something tourist related something like Ghiradelli Square in San Francisco or Pier 39, something with a lot of sidewalk street performers selling lots of trinkets to tourists from out of the region from places like Chico or Modesto who come up to Sacramento for an interesting weekend diversion. That is the type of retail in this area that is only likely to work downtown and it will compliment not try to compete against the Arden Fair Mall.

The reason Walmart is a bad idea downtown is that Wal Mart sells pretty much the same goods in services in each of its locations. Having a Walmart downtown isn't going to do anything to distinquish downtown Sac from the rest of strip malls in the rest of the country. I personally think that downtown probably should just put a moratorium on all new chain stores, but grandfather in the existing ones. But I am probably in a minority on this idea.

[wburg]

Doesn't Old Sacramento already fill that tourist role? Attracting tourists would require some sort of attraction to draw them east under Interstate 5...what would draw their attention?

I don't think there was a serious effort to put a Wal-Mart in the mall, but Target was seriously considered. I think Westfield just wanted to avoid competing with their own mall in Roseville, which is why they deliberately avoided putting in high-end stores, just as they did in San Francisco when Westfield purchased the Metreon and started sticking in lower-end tenants.

I'm curious to see what they do with it. I imagine they already have a concept, but haven't made it public yet. I assume they may try to expand the nightlife/entertainment district just to the east around the 1000 block through the mall, which would connect the bars and clubs in Old Sac (there are 12 bars and 6 nightclubs in Old Sac's six blocks, not counting special events and temporary venues) with the bars and clubs Downtown--and, by extension, all the way through Midtown, although I imagine you could do bigger and better things downtown than in the little rooms in Midtown.

[pistola916]

What would draw people downtown?? hmm.....a downtown arena.

[sacramento916]

Originally Posted by pistola916

What would draw people downtown?? hmm.....a downtown arena.

Only feasible if Sac didn't have douchebag two faced snakes AKA the Maloofs as partners.

Anyways, I think the entire mall needs to just be torn down and upscale Mixed use buildings with inspirational architecture need to be put in there. Also, pave down K street and lead it to Old Sac.

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by wburg

I don't think there was a serious effort to put a Wal-Mart in the mall, but Target was seriously considered. I think Westfield just wanted to avoid competing with their own mall in Roseville, which is why they deliberately avoided putting in high-end stores, just as they did in San Francisco when Westfield purchased the Metreon and started sticking in lower-end tenants.

http://www.sausalitogroup.com/PDF/Se...ento%20Bee.pdf

(shrug). From 2005.

Anyway, if a discount retailer thinks they can make a go of it downtown, for goodness sake *let them set up shop*. There are so many vacant spaces there as it is.

And maybe lower end tenants is all Downtown Plaza can attract, for now and the foreseeable future?

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by Mr. Opinionated

Well I guess it would if your prejudiced opinion were factual. But since it's mythical instead, no need for asprin. Thanks.

Try living next to them and get back to me, MOD CUT. Many of them are slaves to addictions and vices as well.

[Mr. Opinionated]

Originally Posted by NickB1967

Try living next to them and get back to me, MOD CUT. Many of them are slaves to addictions and vices as well.

Jeez... Are you getting so upset because you need to be right, or because you are unable to fathom someone having a different opinion. You dont know me nor where I have lived. If you like to fight, try boxing school. Then practice reason before you resort to name calling and assumptions.

[NickB1967]

I had no idea "Holier Than Thou" were curse words.

[shelato]

Originally Posted by wburg

Doesn't Old Sacramento already fill that tourist role? Attracting tourists would require some sort of attraction to draw them east under Interstate 5...what would draw their attention?

I don't think there was a serious effort to put a Wal-Mart in the mall, but Target was seriously considered. I think Westfield just wanted to avoid competing with their own mall in Roseville, which is why they deliberately avoided putting in high-end stores, just as they did in San Francisco when Westfield purchased the Metreon and started sticking in lower-end tenants.

I'm curious to see what they do with it. I imagine they already have a concept, but haven't made it public yet. I assume they may try to expand the nightlife/entertainment district just to the east around the 1000 block through the mall, which would connect the bars and clubs in Old Sac (there are 12 bars and 6 nightclubs in Old Sac's six blocks, not counting special events and temporary venues) with the bars and clubs Downtown--and, by extension, all the way through Midtown, although I imagine you could do bigger and better things downtown than in the little rooms in Midtown.

When leasing agents are looking to fill commercial spots for big national retailers mostly the decision gets down to what do the demographics of the area in the trading area of the mall in question look like. When the Arden Fair Mall had its last big remodel in the early 1990's by expanding the number of anchors and adding a second floor it expanded its trading range and by expanding its trading range it boosted its demographics. During this time, when new retail was coming to the Sacramento region, generally its first choice was the Arden Fair Mall. That was why it was able to land retailers like Sacramento's first Virgin Megastore or why for a long time it had the regions only Nordstrom.

But, the Roseville Galleria and now the Folsom Palladio are both cutting into the trading area for the Arden Fair Mall. When H&M came to the area it went to the number 1 mall in the area, the Galleria which has the greatest sales per square foot and just better demographics than the Arden Fair Mall. But more significantly when it came time to add a second store in the region, they decided to go to the Folsom Palladio over the Arden Fair Mall. This is significant because a large chunk of the sales tax that the City of Sacramento collects comes from the Arden Fair Mall.

Cathie Anderson: Swedish clothier adds second Sacramento-area store - Cathie Anderson - The Sacramento Bee

The problem that the K street mall had was first it was too close to the Arden Fair Mall. In its trading range, the Arden Fair Mall offered more stores with more selection. The K street Mall couldn't compete with Arden Fair for the same reason that the Country Club Center and Country Club Plaza really haven't been able to compete with the Arden Fair Mall, if you selling a me too offering of stores, the Mall with the largest selection of stores is going to prevail and all other malls in the immediate area are going falter. Country Club Plaza was remodeled not to long ago and it is probably half vacant. When you are doing back to school shopping often you want to get it over with and that generally means trying to go to just one mall and taking care of everything there.

Tourism in this area is pretty underdeveloped. When tourists come to a region they generally hit its downtown. If you look at San Francisco they didn't say well we have a lot of tourist related business on Lombard Street why do we need more? They have systematically added tourist related businesses districts to bring in more money from outside of San Francisco. So the Fisherman's Wharf tourist complex was expanded with the conversion of the old Ghiradelli Chocolate Factory into essentially a mall catering to tourists, they built Peir 39 into functionally another mall catering to tourists, they also converted another old factory into a giant Mall in Fishermans Wharf the Cannery. Union Square, the Haight, North Beach have all been turned into giant tourist traps. When it came time to expand muni, they didn't add just another muni line, they brought back old historic street cars with the goal of expanding the number of areas tourists in San Francisco visit. What are the Cable Cars in San Francisco but a means of moving tourists from tourist trap to tourist trap in San Francisco. They wanted the F Street Line to serve a similar purpose.

Because we live in Sacramento we don't tend to think of Sacramento as tourist draw or a very limited tourist draw. But if you live in Modesto, Stockton, Fairfield, Chico or Winters, sometimes you are looking for something to do on a weekend and Sacramento has the potential to become a regional draw from this hinterland. But you need enough different activities to keep them occupied when they are done walking around the State Capitol, old town or maybe the Train Museum or the Crocker. The more tourists offerings you create the more you strengthen all of them. How much of a draw would Coit Tower or Lombard Street be by themselves, but because there are other tourist related activites in those neighborhoods they feed off each other. Moreover because there are so many tourists traps in San Francisco you have a pretty good choice of tourist trap options when you are deciding to visit San Francisco, so you have reasons to go back and visit again fairly quickly.

Tourism isn't a business that the suburbs really have a chance to compete with. While I am sure that Concord and Pleasanton are nice enough places to live for the residents who live in them, those areas don't really attract a lot of tourists from Sacramento or Roseville or Folsom, the tourists go to San Francisco instead. When people leave the area they are living for tourism reasons generally they go to cities.

What the Sacramento region doesn't have yet is a Rainforest Cafe, a Ripley's Believe or Not Museum, the type of stuff you would find at Pier 39. You wouldn't have to fill the entire K Street Mall with those types of retailers either, but they would bring in a different clientèle to the mall then the state workers shopping during their lunch hour and they would help fill some of the vacancies in the mall. They would help the Macy's downtown and the Macy's downtown would help them. This type of retail would also help to get the tourists out from under the freeway. Remember the K Street Mall is one potential pedestrian route between Old Town and The State Capitol. You could fill one of the anchors at the K Street Mall with something like an Aquarium or a Plantarium, something that fills the function of the Aquarium by the Bay at Pier 39.