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I used to be more excited about the entire telecommuting option. But the argument that I found more persuasive over time was that any job that could be done by telecommuting is a job that probably could be done much more cheaply overseas.
Now I could be wrong and I hope I am wrong. I'd like to believe that there is substantial fraction of these jobs that can be handled electronically that don't require face to face interaction that still will be done domestically, but I really don't have any idea how large that potential market is. I agree the infrastructure savings are huge if your economy can create lots of them. But how many of these jobs are going to stay in the US vs creating jobs in abroad? I have no idea.
I think telecommuting is overrated. You lose something when you don't have that face to face interaction. It's kind of reminds me of online dating--it's ok, but only to a limited extent.
I am sure that there are other people who love Manhattan or Copenhagen or where ever the hell on earth other people like and want to turn there own neighborhoods into that or maybe into some throwback of how there neighborhood was a hundred years ago. But I really like Sacramento and my part of Carmichael just the way it is right now. If there are people who like parallel parking, feeding parking meters, parking tickets, noise and traffic, well bless there hearts. I hope they find some place that offers all that for them. But its not for me.
But that's just it. People in Manhattan & Copenhage don't own cars like people in Carmichael do. They don't want or need them. No oil changes, car payments, maintenance & insurance costs. No MOD CUT, what am I gonna do?" feeling when your car breaks down.
I'm not an advocate of Manhattan style densities, but densities about 1/6 that level would still work well for decent transit. It wouldn't need to be all over the Sac area. Suburbs have their place. But large metro areas like Sacramento would do fine to have, say 10 fewer square miles of suburbs and 10 more square miles of areas like Midtown Sac.
Last edited by NewToCA; 03-30-2010 at 01:01 AM..
Reason: don't work your way around the language edits
Not all of the populace want's to peddle its a$$ around town.
Do you have even a vestige of a sense of humor? Inquiring minds want to know!
Curmudgeon....I'd wish you'd stop being such a....a...curmudgeon. I think it's good that we get intelligent and well thought out posts from KimRacer & Wburg. It's too bad people think this sort of detailed and intelligent thinking is boring. It's this kind of thoughtful analysis on any number of issues that America needs a lot more of, as opposed to the emotional rants from conservatives and liberals alike that are seen all over the CD forums.
Curmudgeon....I'd wish you'd stop being such a....a...curmudgeon. I think it's good that we get intelligent and well thought out posts from KimRacer & Wburg. It's too bad people think this sort of detailed and intelligent thinking is boring. It's this kind of thoughtful analysis on any number of issues that America needs a lot more of, as opposed to the emotional rants from conservatives and liberals alike that are seen all over the CD forums.
No argument, Mystical. I'm just being a....well....curmudgeon.
Don't tell anyone but I, too, appreciate the research, knowledge and, above all, sharing of it. But mum's the word or I'll lose my curmudgeonly credentials!
In short, don't take me too seriously. I certainly don't.
No argument, Mystical. I'm just being a....well....curmudgeon.
Don't tell anyone but I, too, appreciate the research, knowledge and, above all, sharing of it. But mum's the word or I'll lose my curmudgeonly credentials!
In short, don't take me too seriously. I certainly don't.
OK I've noticed you've chilled out quite a bit since you retired and moved out of CA.....but I thought I detected a curmudgeonly vibe in that post. You can't always tell on the 'net.
I think telecommuting is overrated. You lose something when you don't have that face to face interaction. It's kind of reminds me of online dating--it's ok, but only to a limited extent.
There are obviously pros and cons to telecommuting. But it would definitely cut down on traffic and pollution, even if people only did it a couple days per week in various industries. I think the perfect scenario is part time telecommuting, so you don't lose that face to face interaction completely and we still have a positive impact on traffic/pollution.
And I don't know that if a job has the ability for telecommuting that it automatically means it would be a good candidate for being outsourced. In some cases it might, but not in all cases. I can see almost half of the positions in the company I'm working at now with the ability to be at least partial telecommute, and this is a service company so few of these positions are candidates for outsourcing.
I think it's at least worth more consideration than it's been getting.
My own feeling is that probably the best way to redevelop that part of West Sac would be to turn it into an auto row. An auto dealer could easily advertise that they are located just off I-80 between Harbor and Jefferson Blvds on West Capitol Blvd.[color="DarkOrange"]Wow, I guess you haven't heard about 30 percent of auto dealers closing. Cities are scrambling to find uses to replace unused Auto Dealers
The market is down for autos because the economy is down. But structurally the market for cars in Sacramento isn't changing. This area has been car dependent for the past 50 years and probably will be car dependent for the next 50 years. People in this area aren't permanently giving up on buying cars. But the location of where they are buying cars is changing. The dealers further from freeways are going out of business. The sites near the freeways are adding dealers.
In the Elk Grove automall, Lasher just announced plans to build a new Subaru dealership. Its the proximity to the freeway that allowed the Elk Grove auto mall to get most of the dealers on Florin Road to move to the Elk Grove automall. Even in a down market, the only sites growing are the ones next to a freeway.
Fulton Avenue at one time was the largest auto row in the area. But the dealers along Fulton Avenue are abandoning Fulton Avenue for either Auburn Blvd along the freeway or they are just going out of business. Mel Rapton Honda, moved to a location at Fulton and Business 80, next to the Haggin Oaks Golf course. The Maita auto group moved most of its dealerships in the Fulton area to Auburn Blvd. The remaining dealers on Fulton Avenue are the ones in trouble. Swift Dodge which at one time was the largest Dodge dealership in Northern California died. Great Valley Chrysler, Mazada, Jeep died. Sacramento Kia died. Daughtery Hummer died. Brailey & Graham died.
The significance of auto dealers is the sales tax that they generate for your jurisdiction. Roseville still gets more sales tax from the Roseville automall than the Roseville Galleria.
What West Sac should be doing is poaching the dealerships that are vulnerable right now because they are too far from the freeway. I would go after the Neillo dealerships, I would go after Turner Volvo, Von Housen Motors. Harold Ford. Sacramento Jaquar, Mike Daughtery Chevrolet, Lexus of Sacramento.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Ozo
If they didn't do that, then I would look at bringing in a power center on West Capitol, sort of like Natomas Crossing in Natomas. Something with maybe a Lowes, a Super Target and maybe a movie theater. This kinda of urban planning has no place in a downtown type core area. Exactly what the area doesn't need. Not to mention, Natomas crossing is 3 miles away and West Sacramento just opened a brand new Target and Lowe's last year. West Sacramento is right to want to increase density and walkabilty in this area and not do another Natomas
Next time you drive out towards SF, notice almost all of the other cities put the retail and the auto dealerships next to freeway. These are the highest and best uses for land next to freeways.
Then bring factory outlets to West Sac. The nearest Factory Outlet stores are in Folsom and Vacaville. But again this type of freeway oriented retail is the type of thing that brings in a lot of sales tax to your region. It becomes destination retail sucking sales tax revenues from all of the people commuting in the area along US 50/80.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Ozo
I don't think of suburb like Vacaville and Fairfield to be an apt. comparison to urban center like Sacramento. These cities have always been on the road to somewhere else. By this logic, Midtown should be an auto row because it is surrounded by Freeways. I disagree.
What Vacaville, Fairfield and Roseville have done a remarkable job is bringing in sales tax revenue. The money your region collects in sales tax revenue is the money you have to spend for revitalizing your cities, for attracting high value employers (like Genentech or HP).
The problem cities like Sacramento have is not enough sale tax per resident. The city of Sacramento at one time had three major malls, Arden Fair, Florin Road and Downtown Plaza. Right now Florin is dead, Downtown Plaza is mostly dead and the Arden Fair mall is hanging on. The City of Sacramento also used to gain a significant amount of sales tax from its auto row on Florin Road, that money is mostly gone.
Right now the cities your region wants to look like are Roseville, Fairfield and Vacaville. The Roseville Galleria now is the largest mall in the region, so its producing more sales tax than the Arden Fair Mall. The Roseville automall is the largest auto mall in the country. The city of Sacramento has about 5 times the population of Roseville but sales tax reciepts between the two areas are pretty similiar.
That means in terms of city finances, Roseville is in a much better position than the city of Sacramento.
If you are the City of West Sac, you don't want to emulate the City of Sacramento you want to emulate the Cities of Roseville, Vacaville, Fairfield. These cities are a lot more financially viable than the city of Sacramento. Use the locations next to the freeways to bring in the sales tax money.
The city of Sacramento had better spaces for an automall than midtown. They really should have put an automall somewhere in Natomas. I would have put it fairly close to 80, and 5. Its there failure to do so that created an opportunity of West Sac to capture that market.
But given that they are putting Bass Pro shops in the railyard, I wouldn't be suprised if an automall ends up in the railyards.
An auto row and a power center in West Sac? I can think of few things more nauseating, although the area around IKEA is already pretty much a power center.
I agree and the area around Ikea was one of the better planning ideas that West Sac had. Shoppers from around the region (and outside of West Sacramento) drive from miles to buy big ticket items like furniture at Ikea. Essentially Ikea is importing sales tax dollars to West Sacramento from around the region. What West Sac needs are a lot more of these types of freeway oriented retail uses.
From West Sacramento's perspective, business 80/50 has more traffic than regular interstate 80 through West Sacramento. Its also closer to the weighted average of people in the region. This means that road is an even better location than the Ikea location for freeway orientated uses. The city of Sacramento completely dropped the ball when it came to building an automall in Natomas. There failure is West Sacramento's opportunity. Auto dealerships sell high dollar goods at high volumes. Merely because the City of Sacramento is willing to cede the sales tax revenues from auto sales to Elk Grove, Roseville and Folsom is no reason that West Sacramento should repeat the same mistake.
One of the smartest things Emeryville did was to capture a lot of the sale tax revenue that Oakland and Berkeley were leaving on the table. The City of Sacramento is doing the same thing here. West Sac should capitalize on Sacramento's and Arden Arcade's poor decision making.
What is nauseating is building expensive and pointless streetcars to nowhere at the expense of bringing in uses that will significantly improve your regions sales tax base. Don't ***** to me about budget cuts when you are unwilling to take the steps to expand the sale tax base in your region.
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I've noticed you've chilled out quite a bit since you retired and moved out of CA.....but I thought I detected a curmudgeonly vibe in that post. You can't always tell on the 'net.
