Raising Children in SLC, Utah - Non LDS (Bluffdale, Bluff: fit in, homes)

[brokencrayola]

What SaveMtns is saying has NOTHING to do with the age of the kids. It has to do with the clannishness is many LDS communities. We lived in southwest Idaho for 5 years in a small town that was nearly all LDS but us and one or two other families. At first, when there was the hope we might convert people spoke to us, missionaries showed up at our door etc. It became clear pretty quickly we did not intend on converting and from that point on the community had nothing to do with us. If we went into a store they did not come over to see if we needed help and said practically nothing when we checked out. No, have a nice day, how are you today etc. We had a son about a year after moving there, so thank goodness he never had to attend school. We had one neighbor that has 2 children that was not LDS and one child was in school. The kids never had him over and couldn't come to his house. He was not invited to parties, and no girls looked at him twice because they were not allowed to date non-Mormons. I did not know such people or communities existed. I found out the hard way. It was the longest 5 years of my life for sure. If it was not for my husband's job we would have left way earlier. Mormons (not all, but many) pretty much only wanted to have their closest social interactions with other Mormons. I think anyone that is not LDS and is seriously considering moving to Utah, southern Idaho, or northern Nevada or northern AZ should know that many of these areas and states have a largely Mormon population. If they have school age children they should even more strongly be aware that their children may be directly affected by this move. I am not saying every Mormon or every community in these states is like this. I would check it out ahead of time, talk to people that live there and really investigate it before they move.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by brokencrayola

It became clear pretty quickly we did not intend on converting and from that point on the community had nothing to do with us. If we went into a store they did not come over to see if we needed help and said practically nothing when we checked out.

I’m LDS, and I have that experience pretty much every time I go to the store. It’s called poor customer service. I worked in a great independent grocery store during high school, and we had customer service drilled into us. I rarely if ever see that level of service anywhere these days. But can you honestly say that you were not helped only because you were not LDS? Do you believe the clerks and cashiers saw you and purposely avoided you, and only you, because you were non-LDS? How do you even know they were LDS? If you believe those things, I fear you may need some “de-sensitivity” training

Getting back to the topic at hand, I don’t want to be insensitive myself. I do believe there may be some legitimate concerns. Namely, will LDS kids, following the universal tendency of kids to exclude, exclude based their religious affiliation? This may be a legitimate concern because those kids do see each other on the weekends and at church activity nights, their parents know each other from church, so it is easier and more natural for them to form groups.

Here’s where I see the concerns as becoming illegitimate

-- It’s “universal” in LDS-dominated communities. I previously offered many examples of people who felt completely the opposite as you two.

-- It’s unique to Utah. As I pointed out, it happened to me when I moved to the Midwest when I was a kid. It happens all over.

-- It’s a conspiracy. Trust me, there is no one saying in Church to avoid all the “non-members.” Actually quite the opposite, usually. You will note that when the Mormons do reach out, the pendulum swings the other way and the LDS are then accused of being pushy and trying to convert. It’s almost a lose-lose situation.

-- Only non-LDS kids are victims. When my wife was in middle school, she moved from West Valley to Sandy. Being somewhat reserved, she ate lunch by herself for weeks, and had a terrible experience. Since she was LDS, how can you explain this one away using “the great religious divide?” Additionally, there are many instances where kids themselves aren’t included in their own LDS wards. When I was growing we had a couple of kids, who lacked some social awareness, and had a terrible time fitting in to our LDS ward. Looking back, I’m not proud of myself for such exclusive behavior, but I guess I was doing what most kids do. And it happened in the very Church setting you are saying creates the cliques. As I said before – kids are kids.

In my opinion, using the whole LDS-Non-LDS issue is a crutch because it’s the most visible. If that wasn’t there, but you still experienced the same thing, what would you blame it on?

[Blondie-Rabbit]

Or did the neighbors finally get the hint that you didn't want to have anything to do with them? Did you ever attend one of their functions, before deciding not to be part of their activities? Or was it just an outright shunning of them first and their efforts. It doesn't mean you have to join the church. In fact I know several people who are non LDS who attend functions to have fun. Yeah we joke about converting them, but we all know they have no intention. They come to socialize. Was it the turn downs of the offers that had them finally giving up is all I'm saying. It works both ways.

I do know some really fat headed Mormons who are like what has been stated. They are small minded, and usually frowned upon by the rest of the congregations as over the top. You have that in every religion. Try living in the South East. Southern Baptists rule. My kids were ignored there, until I let them go to a few group social activites at the local Baptist church. After that we all got along. It's the effort to try and blend in, not join in that really helps.

[Trebek]

I have been here for several days now and have been met some very wonderful and helpful people. I don't worry about their beliefs, and none seem to be concerned about mine. There is a positive vibe to the place that I've never experienced before (and I've been everywhere!). Ok Argentina had the positive thing going on as well.

I really think ya'll have had bad personal experiences that have jaded your thinking.

[jhwest]

I am very active LDS but am moving away from Utah because I feel shunned too. I have lived here for 5 years and have not felt close to any of my neighbors, no matter what their religion. I have visited several other wards (congregations) along the Wasatch Front to find someplace friendlier, and was always so stunned to never be welcomed by anyone.
I think the problem is not a religious one. I think it is due to the fact that many people here grew up locally. Their friends and relatives are all still here. Their social networks are full and they don't feel the need to reach out. So they don't. I don't think it has anything to do with relgion.
If you happen to live in an area with a lot of transplants than I doubt this would be an issue. So if a person moving to Utah can find an area with many non-natives than I really believe that they will be welcomed much more.

[Trebek]

Originally Posted by jhwest

I am very active LDS but am moving away from Utah because I feel shunned too. I have lived here for 5 years and have not felt close to any of my neighbors, no matter what their religion. I have visited several other wards (congregations) along the Wasatch Front to find someplace friendlier, and was always so stunned to never be welcomed by anyone.
I think the problem is not a religious one. I think it is due to the fact that many people here grew up locally. Their friends and relatives are all still here. Their social networks are full and they don't feel the need to reach out. So they don't. I don't think it has anything to do with relgion.
If you happen to live in an area with a lot of transplants than I doubt this would be an issue. So if a person moving to Utah can find an area with many non-natives than I really believe that they will be welcomed much more.

I'm very sorry to hear about that Jh. You were one of the first friends I met on this board, and I believe you mentioned the West Jordan area as a place to live. I found a job in the area, and am in the process of seeking a place to live.

Is it really that bad around there? I've been near downtown for several days and have loved it. Maybe I should live downtown and commute?

[Trebek]

I've said this before, but I'll say it again. The Chinese (and proverbs I think) have a saying. "If you spend to much time in your neighbors house he/she will hate you.

Why are neighbors, who choose not to associate with you a problem? I've had more problems, with neighbors who spent too much time hanging around my house and bugging me.

Good neighbors: Ask for a cup of sugar and recieve it. Ask you to feed they're dog when away, which I'll gladly do. Get together during Christmas or July 4th and party.


What more can you want?

[jhwest]

Yes, there are people who will feed my dog when I'm away, or wave as I drive by. But I really would like a meaningful relationship! My husband and I would like friends who want to hang out with us. That just doesn't happen around here. That's not to say it doesn't happen anywhere in Utah.
Let me clarify; I think people here are perfectly friendly. But I want true friends. And people are too busy with their friends they already have. Too busy going to meetings, soccer practice and all that kind of thing to realy take the time to get to know each other. Maybe that's a problem with Americans in general, not just Utahns.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by jhwest

Maybe that's a problem with Americans in general, not just Utahns.

It's a problem of suburbia. With the loss of distinct towns came the loss of community. People just live at postal addresses and work and interact with people elsewhere.

[Trebek]

Yes, I think the problem is a nation wide issue. People seem to be so busy with life that they don't easily form friendships, especially once they're past 30. My good friends are all people I've known for 20 years or more. You sound like a very nice person, I would think that you would have plenty of friends.

What areas would you recommend for me and my 16 year old son to live? I want him to be able to make friends and not be shunned for not being native Utah'ns. I will be working in the Bluffdale area and would like to keep the commute short.