Raising Children in SLC, Utah - Non LDS (Sandy, Taylorsville: apartment complexes, houses)

[Katiana]

In my opinion, using the whole LDS-Non-LDS issue is a crutch because it’s the most visible. If that wasn’t there, but you still experienced the same thing, what would you blame it on?

Or did the neighbors finally get the hint that you didn't want to have anything to do with them? Did you ever attend one of their functions, before deciding not to be part of their activities? Or was it just an outright shunning of them first and their efforts.

The above are two quotes from this thread. I am not LDS, nor do I live in Utah. I visit this forum every now and then out of an interest in Utah, Mormonism, and other things. Perhaps as an outsider, I can be a little objective.

I have heard enough of the LDS shunning from many people who have lived in Utah to believe there is a grain of truth in it. Indeed, on this forum, an LDS mom defended her decision to not let her kids play with kids whose parents do things that are against her religion, e.g. drink coffee.

I have no problems with following one's principles. I do not expect to be served alcohol at the homes of my friends who don't use it. I once refused to let my daughter visit a friend who, at the age of 15, was allowed to drink alcohol at home, because I was concerned what would happen there. I don't let anyone smoke in my house.

However, when my non-drinking friends come to my house, I don't offer them alcohol, but sometimes it is available for others who do use it. I allowed my daughter to do other things with her friend; I didn't say they couldn't be friends.

The above quotes strike me as a "blame the victim" philosophy. I have seen this on other forums. Californians say they are not accepted in Colorado and elsewhere, and people blame them. Most of them, IMO, are moving somewhere to have a better life. It is unrealistic to expect they will never utter another positive word about California. In Pittsburgh, with its extremely tight-knit family groups, newcomers say they have trouble making friends, and people blame the newcomers. They will say things like "you must have been sending out a message you didn't want to be bothered". Well, maybe not! Maybe the old-timers really don't want/need any more friends. With a religion issue, I don't think you need to start going to someone else's church to be accepted and acceptable. And, you have to be invited first, if you are talking about, say, a youth group activity and you or your kid is not a member. I think it is up to the current residents anywhere to be more welcoming to the newcomer, who may be shy and just waiting for an invitation to something.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by Trebek

Yes, I think the problem is a nation wide issue. People seem to be so busy with life that they don't easily form friendships, especially once they're past 30. My good friends are all people I've known for 20 years or more. You sound like a very nice person, I would think that you would have plenty of friends.

What areas would you recommend for me and my 16 year old son to live? I want him to be able to make friends and not be shunned for not being native Utah'ns. I will be working in the Bluffdale area and would like to keep the commute short.

Daybreak if you can afford it.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

I have seen this on other forums. Californians say they are not accepted in Colorado and elsewhere, and people blame them ... In Pittsburgh, with its extremely tight-knit family groups, newcomers say they have trouble making friends ...

You have exactly proved my point. It happens other places. But in other places people can't just make a blanket statement like ... that Pittsburghite culture teaches people to "shun" outsiders. I do believe it happens here, but its not taught as some people think it is. It comes from the exact same phenonomen ... people in their comfort zones. You do make good points about people needing to reach out.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by coolcats

You have exactly proved my point. It happens other places. But in other places people can't just make a blanket statement like ... that Pittsburghite culture teaches people to "shun" outsiders. I do believe it happens here, but its not taught as some people think it is. It comes from the exact same phenonomen ... people in their comfort zones. You do make good points about people needing to reach out.

Well, I guess I did prove your point to a certain extent. And it is commonly said that families are so tight in Pittsburgh (and other places) that people have a hard time fitting in if they have no family there. It's been said on their forum and I've heard it from others. It is certainly said in Colorado, where I now live, that there is hostility towards outsiders. it just isn't based on religion. Here, the rationale seems to be more of an "anit-growth" attitude, though people are nicer to outsiders one on one.

One thing I definitely disagree with is that the newbies need to attend church with LDS or Southern Baptists or anyone else to fit in. Using the example of Pittsburgh, if your neighbor invited you to go to the local Catholic church (there are about as many Catholics there as LDS in SLC) and you didn't want to, should they never speak to you again? Would they go to your church? Probably not, b/c they are not looking for a new religion and neither are you! Should you accept an invite to a church potluck or allow your kids to go to Youth Group? Sure, why not? That's what 'diversity' is all about.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

One thing I definitely disagree with is that the newbies need to attend church with LDS or Southern Baptists or anyone else to fit in. Using the example of Pittsburgh, if your neighbor invited you to go to the local Catholic church (there are about as many Catholics there as LDS in SLC) and you didn't want to, should they never speak to you again? Would they go to your church? Probably not, b/c they are not looking for a new religion and neither are you! Should you accept an invite to a church potluck or allow your kids to go to Youth Group? Sure, why not? That's what 'diversity' is all about.

I agree with you on that point. It would be wrong to condition my treatment of someone based on whether they went to Church with me. I think people are saying people should go to go church potlucks, youth groups etc. There would be no harm in socializing like that. Not necessarily Sunday services. More as a means to get to know the people.

Because to be honest, the LDS ward structure makes it conducive to staying within a defined circle. But everyone should branch out. If someone invites people 3 or 4 times to such activities and gets turned down every time then they will give up.

[Trebek]

So if I get invited to a LDS function, and bring a bottle of wine with me (not offering it to others), would they consider it to be disrespectful? I would be respectful, and only have a couple glasses.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by Trebek

So if I get invited to a LDS function, and bring a bottle of wine with me (not offering it to others), would they consider it to be disrespectful? I would be respectful, and only have a couple glasses.

Yes, that would be frowned upon at a church function.

[Blondie-Rabbit]

I said church functions not church meetings. I like how that got twisted. It is the prevailing culture you learn about in a new area, be it rlgious bassed, or sports based, or politcal based. If I were to move to an area where everyone attended pro football games all the time, and had community games for others, with gatherins as a way to get along, then I might not go to the pro game, but I might go to the gatherins of the community games and parties. Go to Mexico where in Mexico city a big thing is on Saturdays to get together in a small park and have a dancing party. It is the old time dances with people dressing up in their finest. That is their big social function for the week. Want to get to know your neighbors go attend one of those functions. You don't have to dance, you can just hang out. It's galled effort. What I've seen on these boards about being shunned in Utah is people who don't go to the activiteis (this is not going to a sacrement meeting) and then complain that they are shunned. After a while people give up asking. As to the kids, yes there are some parents that won't let kids play with other kids for one reason or another. In Utah it may be related to standards the parents are worried about. In other states it might be that one family is liberal and doesn't want their kids influenced by non liberals. In others it might be over race. Who know from one place to the next. Parents all over the world will do this. Not just Utah. I refused to let my daughter spend time with a girl after she had attended a slumber party at her house, and came home drunk at 12. the whole group at that slumber party were given alcohol in a water mellon, and then in lemonade. Being kids they had stayed up most the night. Hence the drunk state when my daughter came home. Now that I call irresponsible and will refuse my daughter to spend time with that girl out side of school again. Call me old fashioned, but that is my decision with my child.

[Katiana]

Here is what brokencrayola said:

At first, when there was the hope we might convert people spoke to us, missionaries showed up at our door etc. It became clear pretty quickly we did not intend on converting and from that point on the community had nothing to do with us.

Your response was:

Or did the neighbors finally get the hint that you didn't want to have anything to do with them? Did you ever attend one of their functions, before deciding not to be part of their activities? Or was it just an outright shunning of them first and their efforts.

My response:

One thing I definitely disagree with is that the newbies need to attend church with LDS or Southern Baptists or anyone else to fit in. Using the example of Pittsburgh, if your neighbor invited you to go to the local Catholic church (there are about as many Catholics there as LDS in SLC) and you didn't want to, should they never speak to you again? Would they go to your church? Probably not, b/c they are not looking for a new religion and neither are you! Should you accept an invite to a church potluck or allow your kids to go to Youth Group? Sure, why not? That's what 'diversity' is all about.

Good grief! Calm down out there! I also agreed about parents raising children according to their principles. To wit:

I have no problems with following one's principles. I do not expect to be served alcohol at the homes of my friends who don't use it. I once refused to let my daughter visit a friend who, at the age of 15, was allowed to drink alcohol at home, because I was concerned what would happen there. I don't let anyone smoke in my house.

However, I do think if one doesn't want to go to someone else's religious function, that should not be held against them. You might not invite after 3-4 times, but maybe you could invite them to your home for a barbecue or something, if your motive was to befriend them. Nothing got "twisted".

[Trebek]

Originally Posted by coolcats

Yes, that would be frowned upon at a church function.

Thanks for the heads up! Will remember not to make that faux pas! But I will go to one or two, I'm sure they will be enjoyable!

But I would never convert, so I hope my views would be respected.